Photo ID's?

haymarket · Mar 12, 2012

beerftw said:
show empirical evidence!!! not some liberal study claiming what they guess then ill take you seriously!!!!!!!!!!!

No liberal here is advocating changing the law.

You are advocating changing the law.

The burden of proof is upon you to show there is an actual significant problem with voter fraud that warrants your solution.

I debated in college for two years and judged high school debates for many more. The affirmative - those advocating a certain program or change or affirmative position - ALWAYS have the burden of proof. The other side, or the Negative - merely has to raise questions that your case has not been established.

So where is the case?

NAKED N00B · Mar 12, 2012

beerftw said:
show empirical evidence!!! not some liberal study claiming what they guess then ill take you seriously!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean like a report by the state's election commission?

About 178,000 voters in South Carolina don't have driver's licenses or DMV-issued photo IDs, according to the state Election Commission

link

Now that you take me seriously, will you concede or show 178,001 instances of voter fraud in South Carolina?

rocket88 · Mar 12, 2012

beerftw said:
but liberals are the ones arguing that voter id infringes on voter rights not me,i said an id is needed for everything in this country,but somehow liberals argue it isnt needed for voting,

You're the one arguing in favor of changing the current law

so tell me are bums walking 20 miles to vote?

Maybe not. However if they are, then their right to vote should not be abridged.

are criminals driving in unregistered cars with no license to get there?

No one's talking about allowing criminals to vote. In fact if you did pass a law requiring photo ID, anybody who's that determined to commit voter fraud will simply get a fake ID. Just like teenagers do to buy beer and cigarettes.

it doesnt take a genius to see liberals are using voter id cards as an opening for allowing illegals to vote,because even if they voted to allow someone to vote without citizenship,states would prohibit it without id cards,which illegals cant obtain,so show some true empirical data or give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It doesn't take a genius to figure out because an accusation like that is completely moronic. Saying liberals want illegal immigrants to vote is like saying conservatives want to weaken our defenses against invasion forces from alien races in the crab nebula.

I have given data, showing that in Minnesota they basically came up with 100 plausible cases of voter fraud out of 3,000,000 votes cast. At least one of whom voted Republican. That's a very small percentage, a significant number of which would not have changed with a voter ID law. (Felons who had not been removed from voter rolls)

beerftw · Mar 12, 2012

JasonI said:
I have asked three times for the original poster to define what "proper ID" is and he has yet to do that. I read, I think in Texas, that student ID's weren't acceptable but a gun license was...I also read a story about an 84yr old man in N.Carolina who was born in his parents house in Maryland in the 1920's and never got a birth certificate because he wasn't born in a hifospital so he couldn't get an ID from the state of NC...again, as stated many times, NO ONE has shown enough cause to go to the trouble of creating new laws...smells a lot like voter suppression to me...

if you need to know what proper id is go get a job apply for a credit card or buy beer.there are already guidelines and exceptions for forms of id cards,and only liberals are too stupid to realize it.its like asking which way is left i point left,then you ask me to show evidence that the left i pointed was left.

no wonder you rely on government help,if you had to fend for yourself you would have died years ago,im better than you in the fact i dont need a super powerfull body to enforce what a person with an iq of 65 can figure out,and thats some form of id,omfg is your social security card and birth certificate so freaking hard,you can obtain legitimate copies even if you lose them,they arent expensive,and more than enough to obtain a photo id.

now at this point you might as well argue to wipe everyone after they take a crap because if you cant expect them to go to the dmv might as well not expect them to be human,just do everything for them so you win their vote,i get it :waiting:

Kreton · Mar 12, 2012

JasonI said:
Have you ever been to NYC? Boston? Philly? Most people who were born and raised there don't have a drivers license...

Not sure if you saw my post saying that another state just ruled that the voter ID law is unconstitutional, so I would say it is you who should give up...

You dont have to have a drivers license. A state issued ID works just as well. They still need to get a job, rent an apt, or buy a house, or cash their checks ect. There is absolutely no reason why a person should be without some form of identification.

Kreton · Mar 12, 2012

NAKED N00B said:
You mean like a report by the state's election commission?

link

Now that you take me seriously, will you concede or show 178,001 instances of voter fraud in South Carolina?

If they are too lazy to go get an ID then they are probably to lazy to vote anyhow.

beerftw · Mar 12, 2012

you are the ones arguing that changing the law disefranchises voters not me,im pretty sure you need to present data,im arguing to prevent possible fraud,which needs no data,you are advocating keeping it the same on the idea it prevents voters,yet no logical proof has been presented????????????????????????

AdamT · Mar 12, 2012

beerftw said:
can you show accurate results not conducted by harvard law students,maybe a national average or a third party study?

Harvard Law graduate, actually. Since when has having a law degree from one of the best schools in the world been a disqualifying condition? :lol:

In any case, the article cites to numerous studies. Perhaps you can address those.

Porchev · Mar 12, 2012

Muhammed said:
Not necessarily...for instance, what if your fine was imposed for driving without a driver's license?

:roll:

If someone is not able to resolve that, they probably don't know who is running; the differences in the parties; and where to go to vote anyway.

JasonI · Mar 12, 2012

beerftw said:
if you need to know what proper id is go get a job apply for a credit card or buy beer.there are already guidelines and exceptions for forms of id cards,and only liberals are too stupid to realize it.its like asking which way is left i point left,then you ask me to show evidence that the left i pointed was left.

no wonder you rely on government help,if you had to fend for yourself you would have died years ago,im better than you in the fact i dont need a super powerfull body to enforce what a person with an iq of 65 can figure out,and thats some form of id,omfg is your social security card and birth certificate so freaking hard,you can obtain legitimate copies even if you lose them,they arent expensive,and more than enough to obtain a photo id.

now at this point you might as well argue to wipe everyone after they take a crap because if you cant expect them to go to the dmv might as well not expect them to be human,just do everything for them so you win their vote,i get it :waiting:

I own my own company so need for a job, thx...you don't even know the facts you are arguing...in some states, a gun license is "proper id"...do you need one of those to get a job? get a credit card? maybe where you live, but everywhere...

again, why after over 200yrs is this now an issue? is it merely a coincidence that the GOP is trying to rewrite voting laws for the first election after our first black president? just a coincidence?

beerftw · Mar 12, 2012

AdamT said:
Harvard Law graduate, actually. Since when has having a law degree from one of the best schools in the world been a disqualifying condition? :lol:

In any case, the article cites to numerous studies. Perhaps you can address those.

i would liek you to break them down and show sources for each claim,that article seemed like nothing more than liberal puffery,but then again you may prove me wrong!

rocket88 · Mar 12, 2012

muciti said:
If they are too lazy to go get an ID then they are probably to lazy to vote anyhow.

They probably are. Still their right though.

beerftw · Mar 12, 2012

JasonI said:
I own my own company so need for a job, thx...you don't even know the facts you are arguing...in some states, a gun license is "proper id"...do you need one of those to get a job? get a credit card? maybe where you live, but everywhere...

again, why after over 200yrs is this now an issue? is it merely a coincidence that the GOP is trying to rewrite voting laws for the first election after our first black president? just a coincidence?

you still dont adress why an id is needed for everything but fight saying voting doesnt need it,quit spinning the sunject and show the proof,

AdamT · Mar 12, 2012

muciti said:
You dont have to have a drivers license. A state issued ID works just as well. They still need to get a job, rent an apt, or buy a house, or cash their checks ect. There is absolutely no reason why a person should be without some form of identification.

While your opinion is certainly appreciated, the FACT remains that there are millions of people in this country who don't have photo IDs. Apparently they aren't aware of muciti's law, which states that one must have a state-approved ID or perish.

Kreton · Mar 12, 2012

JasonI said:
I own my own company so need for a job, thx...you don't even know the facts you are arguing...in some states, a gun license is "proper id"...do you need one of those to get a job? get a credit card? maybe where you live, but everywhere...

again, why after over 200yrs is this now an issue? is it merely a coincidence that the GOP is trying to rewrite voting laws for the first election after our first black president? just a coincidence?

You think that the GOP wants to prevent voter fraud because Obama is black? I have heard quite a few pathetic arguments but this one takes the cake.

JasonI · Mar 12, 2012

beerftw said:
you still dont adress why an id is needed for everything but fight saying voting doesnt need it,quit spinning the sunject and show the proof,

I think at least 5 of us have addressed on several occasions...maybe we are using words to big for you to understand...I'll try again...

We have had elections for over 200yrs with no problems...if it aint broke, don't fix it!!!

beerftw · Mar 12, 2012

AdamT said:
While your opinion is certainly appreciated, the FACT remains that there are millions of people in this country who don't have photo IDs. Apparently they aren't aware of muciti's law, which states that one must have a state-approved ID or perish.

again show the proof,i want empirical data,if it were so true atleast an average from a non biased source could be obtained through google in seconds,but seeing as how no one has yet prvided a truthfull non biased claim your claim is bunk,even polls show atleast where there info came from!

JasonI · Mar 12, 2012

muciti said:
You think that the GOP wants to prevent voter fraud because Obama is black? I have heard quite a few pathetic arguments but this one takes the cake.

No, I think they wan't to suppress votes because he is black and will win again...I agree, your argument is pathetic...we don't have a voter fraud problem...

beerftw · Mar 12, 2012

JasonI said:
I think at least 5 of us have addressed on several occasions...maybe we are using words to big for you to understand...I'll try again...

We have had elections for over 200yrs with no problems...if it aint broke, don't fix it!!!

you have argued you were right and dodged time after time proof to your claim,

let me say this again,SHOW ME THE PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JasonI · Mar 12, 2012

beerftw said:
you have argued you were right and dodged time after time proof to your claim,

let me say this again,SHOW ME THE PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're asking me to prove that rampant fraud doesn't exist?

Kreton · Mar 12, 2012

AdamT said:
While your opinion is certainly appreciated, the FACT remains that there are millions of people in this country who don't have photo IDs. Apparently they aren't aware of muciti's law, which states that one must have a state-approved ID or perish.

Please show me where I said perish.

If someone has no idea how are they surviving? They can't get a job, or even cash welfare checks. Where are they getting money to eat? Crime? If you are not responsible enough to take care of yourself, then you probably shouldnt be voting. I know that sounds harsh but it is true. Getting an ID card is so insanely simple. It is not a hard requirement. You want to vote, you show that you are eligible. Why is that a problem? What is wrong with someone showing that they are eligible to vote in order to vote. Furthermore, in order to be eligible to vote you have to register to vote. And when you register to vote you have to show ID. So obviously these people have one! What is the problem with showing it? The only reason i can think of that people want to allow voter fraud is because it benefits them.

AdamT · Mar 12, 2012

beerftw said:
i would liek you to break them down and show sources for each claim,that article seemed like nothing more than liberal puffery,but then again you may prove me wrong!

And I would like you to show even one single solitary example of voter impersonation to justify the regulation that you support, but as Mick says, "you can't always get what you want."

Kreton · Mar 12, 2012

JasonI said:
No, I think they wan't to suppress votes because he is black and will win again...I agree, your argument is pathetic...we don't have a voter fraud problem...

You think Obama being black is why people don't like him? Please tell me your not this dumb. Most conservatives and other people who don't want to see Obama get reelected disagree with his views and policies. Playing the race card is a sad and pathetic attempt to make some ignorant point.

Jack Webb · Mar 12, 2012

"At the time of the first Presidential election in 1789, only 6 percent of the population–white, male property owners–was eligible to vote."

Charters of Freedom - The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights

Voting rights in the United States

The "right to vote" is explicitly stated in the US Constitution in the above referenced amendments but only in reference to the fact that the franchise cannot be denied or abridged based solely on the aforementioned qualifications. In other words, the "right to vote" is perhaps better understood, in layman's terms, as only prohibiting certain forms of legal discrimination in establishing qualifications for suffrage. States may deny the "right to vote" for other reasons.

For example, many states require eligible citizens to register to vote a set number of days prior to the election in order to vote. More controversial restrictions include those laws that prohibit convicted felons from voting or, as seen in Bush v. Gore, disputes as to what rules should apply in counting or recounting ballots [2]

A state may choose to fill an office by means other than an election. For example, upon death or resignation of a legislator, the state may allow the affiliated political party to choose a replacement to hold office until the next scheduled election. Such an appointment is often affirmed by the governor.[3]

Voting rights in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is no "right to vote" explicitly stated in the U.S. Constitution, but only that the franchise cannot be denied based solely on the aforementioned qualifications.

This quote is taken from the book, Somebody's Gotta Say It by Neal Boortz.

You may not like it, but it's true. The Constitution only protects you from being wrongly discriminated against during the process. It does NOT give anyone the "RIGHT" to vote.

States may deny the "right to vote." It's totally up to them.

"The fact that the state in which you reside even permits you to vote for electors is purely a matter of legislative grace."

beerftw · Mar 12, 2012

AdamT said:
And I would like you to show even one single solitary example of voter impersonation to justify the regulation that you support, but as Mick says, "you can't always get what you want."

i other words no solid proof????

i would have backed out at this point if i wasnt the perso on trial,clearly you not present proff is the same as saying you dont have an argument??

Photo ID's?

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