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2012 or Never

mertex said:
Wiki:
Honda is headquartered in Minato, Tokyo, Japan. Their shares trade on the Tokyo Stock Exchange and the New York Stock Exchange, as well as exchanges in Osaka, Nagoya, Sapporo, Kyoto, Fukuoka, London, Paris and Switzerland.






Wiki:
Toyota is headquartered in Toyota City, Aichi. Its Tokyo office is located in Bunkyo, Tokyo. Its Nagoya office is located in Nakamura-ku, Nagoya.[SUP][7][/SUP] In addition to manufacturing automobiles, Toyota provides financial servicesthrough its Toyota Financial Services division and also builds robots.



Nissan Motor Company Ltd (Japanese: 日産自動車株式会社 Nissan Jidōsha Kabushiki-gaisha[SUP]?[/SUP]) (TYO: 7201), usually shortened to Nissan (
11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png
/ˈniːsɑːn/ or UK /ˈnɪsæn/; Japanese: [nisːaɴ]), is a multinational automaker headquartered in Japan.


Hyundai Motor Company (Hangul : 현대자동차 주식회사) (Hancha : 現代自動車株式會社) (Korean: 현대, Hyŏndae, IPA: [hjə́ːndɛ],[SUP][2][/SUP] modernity; KRX: 005380) is a South Korean multinational automaker headquartered inSeoul, South Korea.



Wiki:
BMW Headquarters (German: BMW-Vierzylinder "BMW four-cylinder"; also BMW Tower) is a Munich landmark, which has been serving as world headquarters for the Bavarian automaker for over 30 years.


Maybe you should've looked harder.
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It was about the engineers and designers, ducky. Everyone knows they're "headquartered" elsewhere; that doesn't even matter.
 
AdamT said:
Okay, so I stand corrected. They do have relatively small departments here. Honda, about 400. Nissan about 500. Meanwhile, GM and Chrysler were each hiring 1,000 NEW engineers at the end of 2010. Chrysler to Hire 1,000 Engineers, Others - WSJ.com

I believe GM employs about 50,000 engineers in the U.S. ... to Toyota's 2,500. GM employs more US workers than Toyota and Honda combined. 32% of GM's workforce is in the US, compared to 11% for Toyota. About 70% of the Big Three's US-sold cars are made in the US, versus a little over 40% for the foreign competition. In '09, about 70% of the average GM car was built with US parts. BMW? Less than 10%.

I could go on, but I'm sure you'd lose interest. The Level Field Institute
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Where do you think all those engineers would go?
 
Harshaw said:
Why? There will be just as much manufacturing here.
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Probably not, given that foreign makes over all do not do as much manufacturing here as the US companies do, or use as many US parts. And in any case, your argument is illogical. Ramping up production at existing plants doesn't require additional engineers. They will be making the same cars, which are mostly designed over seas, only in larger quantities.
 
AdamT said:
And that would be we call a classic ad hominem argument. Do you have anything that contradicts the facts that they posit?
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This IS a forum post but it is obviously a copy/paste from an article that includes quotes from Jim Queen, GM vice president of global engineering (dead link):

GM's engineering department employs 22,000 worldwide, with most clustered in 12 engineering centers.

Engineers' work goes overseas, GM says

Thus your 50k is in the US is grossly overstated.
 
AdamT said:
Probably not, given that foreign makes over all do not do as much manufacturing here as the US companies do, or use as many US parts. And in any case, your argument is illogical. Ramping up production at existing plants doesn't require additional engineers. They will be making the same cars, which are mostly designed over seas, only in larger quantities.
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In the absence of American car companies, that could well change.
 
Dickieboy said:
This IS a forum post but it is obviously a copy/paste from an article that includes quotes from Jim Queen, GM vice president of global engineering (dead link):

GM's engineering department employs 22,000 worldwide, with most clustered in 12 engineering centers.

Engineers' work goes overseas, GM says

Thus your 50k is in the US is grossly overstated.
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Your link is from a 2006 forum post, when the company was tanking. I got my figure from another forum post from 2008 that had a GM link embedded, but unfortunately the link is now dead.

"GM employs 142,000+ people in the United States.
Toyota employs 36,632 people in the United States.

The sources:
http://www.gm.com/corporate/about/gl...merica/usa.jsp
http://www.toyota.com/about/our_busi...mployment.html

Not only that, but the Toyota jobs are basically just lower paying
blue collar jobs, where as GM has 50,000 engineers working over here.
Toyota and other import car companies have brainwashed Americans into
thinking that buying their car is just as good or better for the
American economy than buying from the Big Three, because their car is
assembled over here, but that is baloney. My friends...when we buy
our cars from GM, Ford, or Chrysler, the money stays over here.
Otherwise, it just goes down the drain."
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U.S. Employment: GM vs Toyota

I'd label them both as fairly unreliable, but I can't find a good number.

But even the low number is probably more than all the foreign makes combined.

If you're an engineer, I did notice that GM is presently advertising 45 positions paying been $60k and $80k.
 
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Dickieboy said:
This IS a forum post but it is obviously a copy/paste from an article that includes quotes from Jim Queen, GM vice president of global engineering (dead link):

GM's engineering department employs 22,000 worldwide, with most clustered in 12 engineering centers.

Engineers' work goes overseas, GM says



Thus your 50k is in the US is grossly overstated.
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Just like his MILLIONS of jobs were saved and 23 months of continious job growth but don't expect him to admit that he got the facts wrong.
 
AdamT said:
Your link is from a 2006 forum post, when the company was tanking. I got my figure from another forum post from 2008 that had a GM link embedded, but unfortunately the link is now dead.

I'd label them both as fairly unreliable, but I can't find a good number.

But even the low number is probably more than all the foreign makes combined.

If you're an engineer, I did notice that GM is presently advertising 45 positions paying been $60k and $80k.
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So GM employs 202k WORLDWIDE and you think 25% of them are engineers who work in the US? Really? That doesn't sound even remotely plausable.

General Motors | About Our Company
 
Sparky said:
Just like his MILLIONS of jobs were saved and 23 months of continious job growth but don't expect him to admit that he got the facts wrong.
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I did say that over two million could be unrealistic -- though I don't think so because it would have had a Lehman-like psychologicial shock waves throughout the economy. In contrast you stick to a figure in the 200k range when every study I've seen places the number at over a million. So you would hardly be the model of rectitude, being off by at least 400%. :lol:
 
Dickieboy said:
So GM employs 202k WORLDWIDE and you think 25% of them are engineers who work in the US? Really? That doesn't sound even remotely plausable.

General Motors | About Our Company
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Like I said, there doesn't seem to be good information available. But even at the low end of the figures we've discussed, GM alone probably employs more U.S. engineers than all the foreign car companies combined. And then there's Chrysler.
 
AdamT said:
Like I said, there doesn't seem to be good information available. But even at the low end of the figures we've discussed, GM alone probably employs more U.S. engineers than all the foreign car companies combined. And then there's Chrysler.
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I don’t know any better source of information than the company itself. You seem to have moved the point. My supposition was that the 50k engineers you espouse is exaggerated. I will stipulate that the GM website does not SPECIFICALLY state the quantity of engineers. But argue that 25% sounds high as a proportion of the whole. Finding a reliable source that defines this specifically is not worth the time. Now you propose that ‘GM alone probably employs more U.S. engineers than all the foreign car companies combined’. Another unsubstantiated supposition again not worthy of the time to refute.

Carry on.
 
Dickieboy said:
I don’t know any better source of information than the company itself. You seem to have moved the point. My supposition was that the 50k engineers you espouse is exaggerated. I will stipulate that the GM website does not SPECIFICALLY state the quantity of engineers. But argue that 25% sounds high as a proportion of the whole. Finding a reliable source that defines this specifically is not worth the time. Now you propose that ‘GM alone probably employs more U.S. engineers than all the foreign car companies combined’. Another unsubstantiated supposition again not worthy of the time to refute.

Carry on.
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Okay, so you're completely unsubstantiated claim clearly has more weight than my weakly substantiated claim. I'll agree that it's not worth discussing further.
 
Harshaw said:
It was about the engineers and designers, ducky. Everyone knows they're "headquartered" elsewhere; that doesn't even matter.
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This is what he said:

"Other foreign-owned car companies don't have their national headquarters here and they don't employ US engineers, designers, upper management, etc."

To which you replied Honda does, etc.
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Everyone knows that their plants here in America hire Americans.

Ha,ha,Nice try.
 
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