Women Prefer Santorum to Romney by 10 Points

Peter King said:

Let's be honest, how many women and mothers of women/girls will say to their daughter:

You should make the best of a bad situation now that you have been raped/been the victim of incest because some old sex-less person somewhere in Italy and his sex-less cronies and his allies here in the US headed up by the likes of Rick Santorum believe that life begins when your innocent little egg got invaded by the sperm of your rapist/uncle/brother/daddy (in case of incest) and that you just have to live with it because of their moral code.

So no my dear, no morning after pill, no medical abortion in the first 49 days or abortion itself because they value the clump of cells in your body more highly that your right to decide for yourself wether or not you want to have the baby of your rapist or not. Because it may scar you for life and possibly condemn another kid to have to deal with adoption/childrens homes etc. because Pope Benidict, his papal mafia clan and Santorum feel that their moral rights outweigh everybody elses rights.

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none. pro-life women will instead say that you shouldn't kill your baby.

cpwill said:

none. pro-life women will instead say that you shouldn't kill your baby.

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I corrected your typo:

pro-life women will instead say that you shouldn't kill your rapist's baby.

Santorum is the youngest candidate in the GOP field and it's natural that women prefer him to older candidates. He also succeeded in presenting himself as a family man. Recent polls show that Romney is leading in Michigan but Santorum could stage an upset.

cpwill said:

none. pro-life women will instead say that you shouldn't kill your baby.

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The number of people in the US (according to the latest polls) who want to keep abortion illegal under all circumstance is just 15% or so (give or take 3% either way). Even if all those people are women (which I seriously doubt) that would make the overwhelming majority of women disagree with these pro-life extremists.

I personally would say that after such a traumatic event as rape/incest it is unthinkable to force a woman to deliver the spawn of her attacker. If there are women out there who decide to do that because of their faith I think they should be free to make that decision and be respected for it (even if most people would not understand them). But to force women, who do not feel that way, to give up the right that was given to them under Roe v. Wade (a ruling that according to polls an overwhelming majority support) because of the moral doctrine of a very vocal minority in the US would almost be criminally insane IMHO.

In my opinion, only a monster of a human being would want to enforce that, a person that is so wrapped up in their own self-righteousness that they are unable to recognise the free rights of others.

Peter King said:

The number of people in the US (according to the latest polls) who want to keep abortion illegal under all circumstance is just 15% or so (give or take 3% either way). Even if all those people are women (which I seriously doubt) that would make the overwhelming majority of women disagree with these pro-life extremists.

I personally would say that after such a traumatic event as rape/incest it is unthinkable to force a woman to deliver the spawn of her attacker. If there are women out there who decide to do that because of their faith I think they should be free to make that decision and be respected for it (even if most people would not understand them). But to force women, who do not feel that way, to give up the right that was given to them under Roe v. Wade (a ruling that according to polls an overwhelming majority support) because of the moral doctrine of a very vocal minority in the US would almost be criminally insane IMHO.

In my opinion, only a monster of a human being would want to enforce that, a person that is so wrapped up in their own self-righteousness that they are unable to recognise the free rights of others.

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The extreme pro-lifers like to assert everyone any reservations about abortion agree with them. As you point out, most do not.

joko104 said:

I corrected your typo:

pro-life women will instead say that you shouldn't kill your rapist's baby.

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his too. the baby, after all, didn't rape you. it's sort of an aside, and if it blows into a full discussion it would belong in the forum more dedicated to it; but the notion that pro-life women justify their position because "Rick Santorum Told Me So" is as ludicrous as it is insulting.

Peter King said:

The number of people in the US (according to the latest polls) who want to keep abortion illegal under all circumstance is just 15% or so (give or take 3% either way). Even if all those people are women (which I seriously doubt) that would make the overwhelming majority of women disagree with these pro-life extremists.

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truth. however, a much much much smaller percentage support the Presidents' position of no restrictions, and so Santorum, interestingly, is closer to the middle on this than the President is.

I personally would say that after such a traumatic event as rape/incest it is unthinkable to force a woman to deliver the spawn of her attacker.

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it's not a spawn. the baby is not evil. it is a baby. what you are actually saying is that you think it is worth killing a child in order to avoid the continued trauma of pregnancy in conjunction with such an event.

In my opinion, only a monster of a human being would want to enforce that, a person that is so wrapped up in their own self-righteousness that they are unable to recognise the free rights of others.

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such as, for example, the right of a child to life?

this highlights the difference between the prolife and prochoice assumptions. once you believe it is a child, then you aren't failing to recognize the rights of others, you are instead demanding that the rights of the most vulnerable among us be respected.

cpwill said:

his too. the baby, after all, didn't rape you. it's sort of an aside, and if it blows into a full discussion it would belong in the forum more dedicated to it; but the notion that pro-life women justify their position because "Rick Santorum Told Me So" is as ludicrous as it is insulting.

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No, pro-life women are just as backward when it comes to women's rights in general as Santorum is when it comes to this issue.

Who knows, maybe the next anti-womens choice that Santorum and his supporters might come up with is giving the rapist the right to take his victim to court to prevent aborting their "his". Followed by the rapist parents demanding visitation with their "grandchild".

Peter King said:

No, pro-life women are just as backward when it comes to women's rights in general as Santorum is when it comes to this issue.

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they all hate women too? :roll: "backwards". Give me that Old Time 18th-Century-Recognition-Of-Inalienable-Rights any day of the week.

Mya said:

Americans are not going to vote for religious fundamentalists fanatics.

Let that for the Iranian Regime.

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You really need to settle down with that leftwing crapola. You sound like a fanatic yourself. Maybe we should be watchout for you.

cpwill said:

truth. however, a much much much smaller percentage support the Presidents' position of no restrictions, and so Santorum, interestingly, is closer to the middle on this than the President is.

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actually, you are wrong because Santorum goes far beyond "abortion with restrictions".

22% Legal in all cases
33% Legal in most cases
25% Illegal in most cases
14% Illegal in all cases
6% Unsure

Obama said he supports the right to abortion as set forth in Roe v. Wade that abortion is legal. And 2/3 of polled people are in favor of Roe v. Wade and only 1/3 support repealing it.

cpwill said:

it's not a spawn. the baby is not evil. it is a baby. what you are actually saying is that you think it is worth killing a child in order to avoid the continued trauma of pregnancy in conjunction with such an event.

such as, for example, the right of a child to life?

this highlights the difference between the prolife and prochoice assumptions. once you believe it is a child, then you aren't failing to recognize the rights of others, you are instead demanding that the rights of the most vulnerable among us be respected.

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I think it is not a child until it is viable to live on it's own. Until week 13 it is nothing that could ever live at that time. I don't think a life starts at conception but when a child is born. Abortions too late in the pregnancy should be forbidden IMHO but early on I think it is the womens right that must prevail over the opinions of the "right to life" crowd.

And if it is nothing more than a collection of clumbs that could grow into a child I think it is not a baby. So there is no child killing, it is a process that prevents a child from being formed and born. I thing as long as it is early enough in the pregnancy it is a woman's choice wether or not she wants to have an abortion after rape because she deserves to be spared another trauma on top of the first one.

cpwill said:

they all hate women too? :roll: "backwards". Give me that Old Time 18th-Century-Recognition-Of-Inalienable-Rights any day of the week.

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I can't remember (even after reading my response again) that I wrote that they hate women. It just seems that they are of the opinion that the world/the US should march to their minority drumbeat.

Peter King said:

actually, you are wrong because Santorum goes far beyond "abortion with restrictions".

22% Legal in all cases
33% Legal in most cases
25% Illegal in most cases
14% Illegal in all cases
6% Unsure

Obama said he supports the right to abortion as set forth in Roe v. Wade that abortion is legal. And 2/3 of polled people are in favor of Roe v. Wade and only 1/3 support repealing it.

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Obama voted against BAIPA, putting him to the left of Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, and NARAL. I'm thinking he doesn't want to make the election a referendum on respective abortion positions.

I think it is not a child until it is viable to live on it's own

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so..... what, 12-15 years, then?

Until week 13 it is nothing that could ever live at that time. I don't think a life starts at conception but when a child is born. Abortions too late in the pregnancy should be forbidden IMHO but early on I think it is the womens right that must prevail over the opinions of the "right to life" crowd.

And if it is nothing more than a collection of clumbs that could grow into a child I think it is not a baby. So there is no child killing, it is a process that prevents a child from being formed and born.

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sadly this is not correct. What Obama voted to protect was the killing of living babies after they had already been born in Abortions that had "gone wrong" and produced a living child.

Peter King said:

I can't remember (even after reading my response again) that I wrote that they hate women. It just seems that they are of the opinion that the world/the US should march to their minority drumbeat.

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yup. here in the US we have a long history of doing that sort of thing, when it comes to trying to protect human dignity and rights.

cpwill said:

yup. here in the US we have a long history of doing that sort of thing, when it comes to trying to protect human dignity and rights.

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you mean while trampling on the rights of women and their dignity? Because unfortunatly for Santorum and his crowd abortion is legal and thank goodness from women they have freedom to have an abortion if they want to.

Peter King said:

you mean while trampling on the rights of women and their dignity?

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not any more than forcibly freeing slaves was trampling on the rights and dignity of the slave-owners. the right to swing ones' fist ends at anothers' nose.

cpwill said:

not any more than forcibly freeing slaves was trampling on the rights and dignity of the slave-owners. the right to swing ones' fist ends at anothers' nose.

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what a ridiculous comparison, to compare the right of women to decide over their own body (as set forth in Roe v. Wade) and have an abortion if the choose to or the right of white men to enslave blacks and sell them like cattle is really disturbing.

:shrug: well it's the closest at hand. but generally, yes. women's liberty does not mean that they have the right to kill their children any more than mens' liberty does. In order to protect the rights of the infant/slave, you do indeed remove from the abortionist/owner the legal ability to do them harm.

Santorum is for government control over a woman's reproductive processes (no matter what the circumstance). He also thinks birth control is harmful to women. So why would women like such a zealot?

I am skeptical of some polls since often they are used to create bandwagon appeal, and I would think that most women would not like his extreme points of view.

Peter King said:

what a ridiculous comparison, to compare the right of women to decide over their own body (as set forth in Roe v. Wade) and have an abortion if the choose to or the right of white men to enslave blacks and sell them like cattle is really disturbing.

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Just a small note about that Roe v. Wade comment, if Roe v. Wade went away (if the make-up of the Supreme Court changed enough), abortions legality would vary from state to state, so in some states they would be legal. [I see you are in the Netherlands, so to compare that to NL, it could be legal in Zeeland but not Limburg.]

Anyway maybe that is for another thread, but the reason why I brought up his views on abortion, is because that is an issue many women are concerned about.

By the way, did you see this?: Euthanasia in the Netherlands: Rick Santorum’s bogus statistics - The Washington Post

Porchev said:

Just a small note about that Roe v. Wade comment, if Roe v. Wade went away (if the make-up of the Supreme Court changed enough), abortions legality would vary from state to state, so in some states they would be legal. [I see you are in the Netherlands, so to compare that to NL, it could be legal in Zeeland but not Limburg.]

Anyway maybe that is for another thread, but the reason why I brought up his views on abortion, is because that is an issue many women are concerned about.

By the way, did you see this?: Euthanasia in the Netherlands: Rick Santorum’s bogus statistics - The Washington Post

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Yes, I saw it, there was a thread about that from another Dutch poster in which we discussed this.

And the poll about Santorum being more popular was held under republican (leaning) women only, so independent and most certainly democrats would not think that Santorum would be preferred over Romney.

Peter King said:

Yes, I saw it, there was a thread about that from another Dutch poster in which we discussed this.

And the poll about Santorum being more popular was held under republican (leaning) women only, so independent and most certainly democrats would not think that Santorum would be preferred over Romney.

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I still don't understand why a majority of Republican leaning women would be for no abortions for rape or incest; or be against birth control. That is his position.

I haven't logged on to Debate Politics in a very long time, so I missed the thread about Santorum's comments about the Netherlands. I used to live in NL so any stories about there catch my eye.

Porchev said:

I still don't understand why a majority of Republican leaning women would be for no abortions for rape or incest; or be against birth control. That is his position.

I haven't logged on to Debate Politics in a very long time, so I missed the thread about Santorum's comments about the Netherlands. I used to live in NL so any stories about there catch my eye.

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It was really weird that you mentioned Zeeland and Limburg, Zeeland is the province were I was born and Limburg the province I have lived in most of my life.

Peter King said:

It was really weird that you mentioned Zeeland and Limburg, Zeeland is the province were I was born and Limburg the province I have lived in most of my life.

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That is weird. I lived in the Netherlands twice, the first time was in the south Holland region near Den Haag, the second time was in Limburg, and from there in the summer we used to drive to Zeeland, to a place called Vrouwenpolder. I think a lot of my so-called socially moderate views are influenced from the time I lived in NL.

I think it is amazing that women want to return to the days prior to Roe v Wade. I am not pro-abortion but tried many birth control gizmos that failed.

None of the Republican candidates want women to have the choice of anything. Take a look at how American men stand by their women in the long run. They run! Only by a forced DNA test do most men even admit to fathering a child. The courts are full of man who don't even send financial help to their own kids. The women in America are getting the message.

When the pill came out I filled my prescription but did not like the physical changes in my body and I pleaded with a number oif doctors to sterilize me. I had no insurance so it didn't matter who did the surgery. I took a loan on my house and paid for it. Several years later my exhusband came home whining that his last wife forced him to have a vasectomy and then divorced him. Here was a man who could not pick his daughters out of a crowd and I understand why his wife did this. I got custody of his son along with the girls and he went merrily on his way planting more seeds.

There is a terrible pressure put on Christian women to breed. This is God's will and these women must obey. Apparently is it not within Christian men to be responsible and far too many women return to their parents home where all hell breaks loose.....

I usually stay off this subject because I am not a believer in God, any God. I worked many jobs without a penny from daddy bear. He died hopelessly alone leaving 5 ex wives with children. He was not a bum but a well-known University professor who had no respect for women. Looking back, he lived a terrible life. The kids under my care went all the way and ended up successful and happy.

If Santorum makes it into the final campaign, Obama will be destroyed by the racist masses. The entire Catholic Vatican will destroy him. These people who listen to God would not think twice about killing for the right to end up the leaders of the American Empire.