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How do you watch Republican debates without your brain hurting?

NAKED N00B

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Last night I tried alcohol. I figured if I killed some brain cells, then their ideas might make more sense. It didn't work. I was still dumbfounded.

I don't understand how such events, which should be taken seriously, can devolve into a chaotic orgy of logical fallacies and mistruths. I'm going to break down my evaluation of each candidate based on the campaign as a whole.

Ron Paul - Probably the worst fit for this country. He has the respectable characteristics of consistency and courage to say what may be unpopular. Unfortunately for Dr. Paul, being consistently wrong is not something which appeals to me. The fact that he could advocate for removing $1 trillion from aggregate demand in a single year is mind boggling. What may be crazier is his desire to return to the gold standard. His debate performances are probably the hardest to understand. He gets the biggest moments of applause, due in large part to his loyal Paulistas, but also because he's a master of buzz words. But he really says very little. His answers usually involve 45 seconds of him beginning to sound like he might explain something, but end with some weak conclusion which doesn't further his argument or oftentimes relate back to the question, such as "that's not America, that's not freedom." What most annoys me about Dr. Paul is his arguments are always based from the perspective that he doesn't need to address competing points. What makes me cry tears of confusion is his regular cop out of "If you understand Austrian economics" or "If you understand the business cycle" followed by some baseless dismissal of any competing arguments. But he wants to legalize drugs and says freedom a lot, so people hop on his bandwagon.

Newt Gingrich - Gingrich is the master. If he can't hide and overcome his past, you know those concerns are serious. I have never seen a candidate who is able to rally like Newt. He says exactly what his audience wants to hear. When put on the spot and challenged, true to his name, he squirms out like a slippery amphibian. He turns the tables and demonizes people asking legitimate questions. Last night he was able to turn around a question about contraceptives, which surely would've shown the Republicans backwardness to moderate independents, to making a wild claim about our current president supporting infanticide. He did a similar thing when challenged about his open marriage claims. When he claims to be protecting the sanctity of marriage, it should be asked why two men in love is a threat to the sanctity while the pillsbury dough boy asking permission to sleep with women who aren't his wife isn't. I can say I respect Newt for his desire to bring fresh ideas to the table. That's an admirable trait amongst the trash.

Mitt Romney is fun to watch in the same sense Maury Povich is fun to watch when they bring on cheating boyfriends. Mitt is caught. He is clearly not a conservative. The evidence is all there. There is video. There is physical evidence. There is written evidence. Yet Mitt sticks to the classic cheater's tactic of deny deny deny. And it seems to be working well for him. I think Mitt would be the best president out of the four Republican candidates because he isn't dedicated to pleasing the reactionaries which make up the Republican base. But for now, that's what Mitt has to do. He has to please the backwards reactionaries. He obviously doesn't put much thought into his ideas, but that's ok. If he put any thought into his ideas he would have an economic plan which was feasible. Can someone tell me how you can aim to get federal spending at 20% GDP, taxes at 17% and still balance the budget? Can someone explain how Romney wants to claim responsibility for the jobs created at Bain in the years after he left but not attribute job losses to Bush in the two months after he left? Can someone explain how you can want equal rights for a group of people, while simultaneously barring them from one of the more important institutions in our culture? Any thought put towards Mitt's hard right rhetoric and it falls apart. But deep down he knows that's not the president he can be. He's even saying cutting spending can be harmful to the economy.

Now, the current front runner. I feel bad for Rick Santorum. He believes what he says. He advocates for who he is. I can respect that. However, he is so set on his own sphere, that anything outside is wrong, no matter what the evidence says. I think Rick Santorum can be perfectly summarized by what he said last night. His views on sex are not unknown. One statement proved who Santorum was in two different ways. When discussing title 20, Santorum said something along the lines of he proposed it to get some programs for abstinence only education, which actually work. This is telling for two ways. The first, and most obvious to me, is the simple wrongness of the statement. Abstinence education doesn't work. That has been shown over and over and over again. Comprehensive sex education does a far better job of cutting down on STDs and unwanted pregnancy, while abstinence only programs do nothing to prevent kids from having sex, but do ensure they don't know the dangers of unprotected sex. The second thing that statement says is sheer hypocrisy. Just before that he said that the difference between him and liberals was that he did not want government programs to support his causes. Here he is, minutes later, bragging about federal programs which don't work and are pushing his views on kids. This is Rick Santorum. It's all about his circle. He can tell you why the things he agrees with are right and why the things he disagrees with are wrong, but don't expect the reasoning for the two groups to match up if you compare.
 
To answer the question, I don't. I don't watch them. I know what they're going to say, I know that at least half of it is complete BS.

Frankly, I can't watch either party without wanting to tear my hair out.
 
Watching the GOP debates should be compulsory for all students enrolled in Mediaeval Studies.
 
I don't understand how such events, which should be taken seriously, can devolve into a chaotic orgy of logical fallacies and mistruths.

I take it you don't watch the State of the Union address.
 
"How do you watch Republican debates without your brain hurting?"

To answer the question, most Repubs put their head in the sand, although many suffer from optical rectumitis.
 
This drivel from those twisted enough to find an ounce of truth or value in the 3rd-grade nonsense of our current president, who's done nothing but spout empty platitudes?

Over 40 percent of children are born outside of wedlock. The effects are starting to show.
 
I watch for body language and voicing. The message doesn't matter. It's how they deliver it.

It's kind of like how housewives watch daytime talk shows.
 
"How do you watch Republican debates without your brain hurting?"

To answer the question, most Repubs put their head in the sand, although many suffer from optical rectumitis.

This drivel from those twisted enough to find an ounce of truth or value in the 3rd-grade nonsense of our current president, who's done nothing but spout empty platitudes?

Over 40 percent of children are born outside of wedlock. The effects are starting to show.

So we have two responders in defense of the mindless ramblings of the Republican candidates. Their response is surprisingly nothing but mindless ramblings with a complete lack of substance. So we raise an importation socio-political question. Do political leaders adopt the mindless nonsensical ramblings of their base, or does their base seek to replicate the ineptitude of their leaders?
 
So we have two responders in defense of the mindless ramblings of the Republican candidates. Their response is surprisingly nothing but mindless ramblings with a complete lack of substance. So we raise an importation socio-political question. Do political leaders adopt the mindless nonsensical ramblings of their base, or does their base seek to replicate the ineptitude of their leaders?

No, we're all at work right now to pay your way. I'm fortunate these days to dabble in a forum like this; most conservatives have too much to do to bother.

You throw daggers, then you have a napkin-resume'd President, a bat-sh** crazy Pelosi, and...um...Harry Reid as your leaders. The four men on that stage are so monumentally beyond your "leadership" team, it'd be like watching the Yankees play the Durham Bulls.
 
No, we're all at work right now to pay your way. I'm fortunate these days to dabble in a forum like this; most conservatives have too much to do to bother.

You throw daggers, then you have a napkin-resume'd President, a bat-sh** crazy Pelosi, and...um...Harry Reid as your leaders. The four men on that stage are so monumentally beyond your "leadership" team, it'd be like watching the Yankees play the Durham Bulls.

Do you see the irony in replying with a post empty save for BS rhetoric, ad hominem, and logical fallacies?

And let's get one thing straight. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are my leaders to the same degree they are yours. That is that they are the leaders of the country I reside in. They are not my ideological leaders. They do not direct my thoughts and views on subjects. I form my ideas based on my own thoughts and evidence I have weighed. The Democrats are the people which most represent my ideas from the two major parties, but they are not ideological leaders. I cannot say the same for the right. Republicans, far more than Democrats, seem to be willing to adopt the views of the party hierarchy. They are much more likely to be the sheep herded along by shepherd Rove.
 
amusedly
...
 
Ron Paul - The fact that he could advocate for removing $1 trillion from aggregate demand in a single year is mind boggling.

A lot from oversea spending, privatizing, attrition, 06 FY budget. Possibly the most sensible plan when you consider congress will have to cut anyway.

What may be crazier is his desire to return to the gold standard.

Ron Paul is not calling for gold per se but for currency competition, which may indeed yield gold but as a free choice of actors in the marketplace rather than by government fiat.

His debate performances are probably the hardest to understand. He gets the biggest moments of applause, due in large part to his loyal Paulistas, but also because he's a master of buzz words. But he really says very little. His answers usually involve 45 seconds of him beginning to sound like he might explain something, but end with some weak conclusion which doesn't further his argument or oftentimes relate back to the question, such as "that's not America, that's not freedom." What most annoys me about Dr. Paul is his arguments are always based from the perspective that he doesn't need to address competing points. What makes me cry tears of confusion is his regular cop out of "If you understand Austrian economics" or "If you understand the business cycle" followed by some baseless dismissal of any competing arguments. But he wants to legalize drugs and says freedom a lot, so people hop on his bandwagon.

You only get so much time to explain yourself at a debate where the moderator wants to cut him off within 30 seconds to a min. Going into long details will not only go over people's head but bore them. He wrote some books on the subject which is probably a better place to get information then a so called debate.
 
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Do you see the irony in replying with a post empty save for BS rhetoric, ad hominem, and logical fallacies?

And let's get one thing straight. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are my leaders to the same degree they are yours. That is that they are the leaders of the country I reside in. They are not my ideological leaders. They do not direct my thoughts and views on subjects. I form my ideas based on my own thoughts and evidence I have weighed. The Democrats are the people which most represent my ideas from the two major parties, but they are not ideological leaders. I cannot say the same for the right. Republicans, far more than Democrats, seem to be willing to adopt the views of the party hierarchy. They are much more likely to be the sheep herded along by shepherd Rove.


Well said.You asked a question about the republican field and he attack you with BS rhetoric about Obama and Pelosi.
 
A lot from oversea spending, privatizing, attrition, 06 FY budget. Possibly the most sensible plan when you consider congress will have to cut anyway.



Ron Paul is not calling for gold per se but for currency competition, which may indeed yield gold but as a free choice of actors in the marketplace rather than by government fiat.



You only get so much time to explain yourself at a debate where the moderator wants to cut him off within 30 seconds to a min. Going into long details will not only go over people's head but bore them. He wrote some books on the subject which is probably a better place to get information then a so called debate.

1- The government doesn't have to cut $1 trillion. And since the current economic problems are a result of a depressed aggregate demand, and government spending is a key component of demand, chopping $1 trillion immediately would be catastrophic.

2. His monetary policy has been pretty vague, from everything I've read. No definites, but it usually goes back to gold and silver. It's based on the idea that gold and silver (or whatever else he wants to base his money off of) have intrinsic value. Unless you're going to peg your money to food, water, or oxygen, there really isn't a justifiable reason for that.

3. I've read The Revolution by Paul. I downloaded End the Fed, but never read it because I thought The Revolution wasn't worth the time.
 
1- The government doesn't have to cut $1 trillion. And since the current economic problems are a result of a depressed aggregate demand, and government spending is a key component of demand, chopping $1 trillion immediately would be catastrophic.

2. His monetary policy has been pretty vague, from everything I've read. No definites, but it usually goes back to gold and silver. It's based on the idea that gold and silver (or whatever else he wants to base his money off of) have intrinsic value. Unless you're going to peg your money to food, water, or oxygen, there really isn't a justifiable reason for that.

3. I've read The Revolution by Paul. I downloaded End the Fed, but never read it because I thought The Revolution wasn't worth the time.

1. Government spending is an element of demand that largely wastes anywhere from 30% to 60% of the money allocated to it in red tape, bean counters, studies and appropriations that dont go to actually solving problems.

2. God are you serious with this point? By pegging money to a static item you make money less able to be manipulated and fiscal policy has to make sense because you cannot print your way out of problems, and you cannot just devalue currency without making a big splash in doing so, in essence money supply becomes stable instead of using financial trickery to grow money through leveraged margin.

3. No comment. Keep drinking the kool aid, Im not a Paul supporter by any means but that man isnt bereft ideas. Nor is Obama but his ideas are the same ones they are applying in Greece and Spain and its working so well over there.

Just a hint here if youre going to open your thread with a trolling title, expect to be trolled. You are asking for it, after all.

I watched the GOP debates the same as I did the Dem ones, with interest because what they decide to do ultimately affects me and mine.
 
1- The government doesn't have to cut $1 trillion. And since the current economic problems are a result of a depressed aggregate demand, and government spending is a key component of demand, chopping $1 trillion immediately would be catastrophic.

2. His monetary policy has been pretty vague, from everything I've read. No definites, but it usually goes back to gold and silver. It's based on the idea that gold and silver (or whatever else he wants to base his money off of) have intrinsic value. Unless you're going to peg your money to food, water, or oxygen, there really isn't a justifiable reason for that.

3. I've read The Revolution by Paul. I downloaded End the Fed, but never read it because I thought The Revolution wasn't worth the time.



From my understanding with Liberty Defined, the competition in currency is his true intent. Ron Paul: We Need Free Competition in Currencies! - YouTube He introduces a bill each year about such a issue but will likely never get passed.

He goes back to gold & silver because it is constitutionally legal tender and easier to introduce to start such a result.
Is Ron Paul Wrong on Money and the Constitution? - YouTube


He also discusses it with Tom Woods in a interview: Thomas Woods interviews Ron Paul on Peter Schiff Show 4/20/11 - YouTube
 
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This drivel from those twisted enough to find an ounce of truth or value in the 3rd-grade nonsense of our current president, who's done nothing but spout empty platitudes?

Over 40 percent of children are born outside of wedlock. The effects are starting to show.

Yeah, and the cure for that, according to the Republicans, is to make contraception as inaccessable as possible. Has there ever been a bigger collection of absolute dunces running for President of the United States? These guys make George Bush look smart.
 
How do you watch Republican debates without your brain hurting?

Turn off the sound and listen to a Gilbert and Sullivan Opera while watching the debate!
 
Do you see the irony in replying with a post empty save for BS rhetoric, ad hominem, and logical fallacies?

And let's get one thing straight. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama are my leaders to the same degree they are yours. That is that they are the leaders of the country I reside in. They are not my ideological leaders. They do not direct my thoughts and views on subjects. I form my ideas based on my own thoughts and evidence I have weighed. The Democrats are the people which most represent my ideas from the two major parties, but they are not ideological leaders. I cannot say the same for the right. Republicans, far more than Democrats, seem to be willing to adopt the views of the party hierarchy. They are much more likely to be the sheep herded along by shepherd Rove.
Sure, that's why the right has been looking for anyone but Romney (the GOP pick) so far, thus the drawn out primary process. Unfortunately the left isn't doing primaries, but if they did I doubt Obama would win.
 
Yeah, and the cure for that, according to the Republicans, is to make contraception as inaccessable as possible. Has there ever been a bigger collection of absolute dunces running for President of the United States? These guys make George Bush look smart.

Man, you guys will latch on to whatever nonsense CNN and MSNBC tells you to, directly line from the White House.

As Santorum said, just because he talks about something doesn't mean he wants a government program for it. That's what YOU guys do.

But if you think a GOP win means no more pills and condoms, then why do we even bother talking at all? Let's just get the Civil War over with and be done with it.
 
Mitt Romney is fun to watch in the same sense Maury Povich is fun to watch when they bring on cheating boyfriends. Mitt is caught. He is clearly not a conservative. The evidence is all there. There is video. There is physical evidence. There is written evidence.

Physical evidence that Romney doesn't meet your subjective definition of what constitutes a conservative? Please share your "written, physical?, hard" proof.

He obviously doesn't put much thought into his ideas, but that's ok. If he put any thought into his ideas he would have an economic plan which was feasible.

If you're half as smart/informed as you pretend to be why don't you share with the class what about his economic plan you find unfeasible? Of course, in order to make such a statement, I'm assuming that you've read his plan to begin with. Maybe you could actually point to one of his 59 policy proposals you disagree with and contrast it with one of Obama's (if he has any) and make an argument why you find Obama's to be more credible. That would be "putting thought into your ideas".

Can someone tell me how you can aim to get federal spending at 20% GDP, taxes at 17% and still balance the budget?

Can you source your allegation that Romney believes spending at 20% and taxes at 17% would result in a balanced budget?

Can someone explain how Romney wants to claim responsibility for the jobs created at Bain in the years after he left but not attribute job losses to Bush in the two months after he left?

Do we really need to explain to you the difference between venture capital/private equity and the federal government role in job creation? Are you seriously trying to make this equivocation?

Can someone explain how you can want equal rights for a group of people, while simultaneously barring them from one of the more important institutions in our culture?

What are you talking about here, gay marriage? So your critique is not of Mitt Romney in particular but moreso the entire conservative position on SSM. I thought Mitt wasn't a conservative?

Any thought put towards Mitt's hard right rhetoric and it falls apart. But deep down he knows that's not the president he can be.

A smidgen of objectivity applied to honest research of a candidate's position and you don't need to rely on a politician's rhetoric. I know that is tough for you when that's all your party can run on.


What the hell did this have to do with anything? He agrees with something you do? I thought nothing in his economic plan was 'feasible'.
 
Why aren't this kind of threads put in the right forum like partisan politics?
 
Why aren't this kind of threads put in the right forum like partisan politics?

aren't these debates the prelude to the 2012 presidential election?
 
This drivel from those twisted enough to find an ounce of truth or value in the 3rd-grade nonsense of our current president, who's done nothing but spout empty platitudes?

If all Obama has done is spout empty platitudes, then why is the GOP always screaming about how the sky is falling because of all his actions?


Over 40 percent of children are born outside of wedlock. The effects are starting to show.

So small government should step in and force people to get married I suppose?
 
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