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Romney electability advantage overstated?

Yeah, killing babies and guy-on-guy are so "today". What a fossil.

And keeping women barefoot and pregnant and giving a damn what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is so 'yesterday'. But please, please keep up that strategy.

The stuff on the evils of contraception are a sure fire winner for you guys. Honest.
 
And keeping women barefoot and pregnant and giving a damn what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is so 'yesterday'. But please, please keep up that strategy.

The stuff on the evils of contraception are a sure fire winner for you guys. Honest.

Yes indeed, if you're having sex and the purpose isn't to make a baby, you are evil. America's all over that.
 
And keeping women barefoot and pregnant and giving a damn what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is so 'yesterday'. But please, please keep up that strategy.

The stuff on the evils of contraception are a sure fire winner for you guys. Honest.

Stupid appeal to emotion is emotional

and stupid.

Hes arguing its a state issue, which it is. Whats wrong with that?
 
Yes indeed, if you're having sex and the purpose isn't to make a baby, you are evil. America's all over that.

TAG TEAM STRAWMAN FOR TEH WIN!

Seriously? Wiggen puts up a strawman, Adam knocks it down and then Cat likes Adam's post. Even forum trolls are usually more subtle than that.
 
Stupid appeal to emotion is emotional

and stupid.

Hes arguing its a state issue, which it is. Whats wrong with that?

No, it isn't a state issue, according to the Supreme Court. That's what's wrong with that -- in addition to it being an argument from the Dark Ages.
 
I don't think Santorum would be a disaster at all. The GOP has tried so many times with this "electability" crap and it blows up in their face everytime.

Except Reagan. Who by most measures was a Liberal. Oh wait. Did I just burst your bubble?

What I really don't understand is how liberals can (incorrectly) claim that Santorum would be in their bedroom and yada yada while Obama is doing the very same thing right now, just on the other side of the argument. Obama is meddling just as much with personal issues like contraception and gay marriage. Gay marriage because he chooses not to defend DOMA in court. But, in a liberals eyes, thats okay because the gov't is just "looking out for us". Whats more important to a liberal, freedom or a safety net? I think the answer to that is obvious.

That argument makes no sense. Obama is not doing the very same thing. Forcing insurers to provide a service that people do not have to use is hardly the same as coming in and telling people, no you can't do what you want to do in the privacy of your homes and that the government will prosecute you for things you previously were free to do. And expanding a right and privilege that is not mandatory to additional people is not getting the government into your bedroom.
 
Except Reagan. Who by most measures was a Liberal. Oh wait. Did I just burst your bubble?
Oh, you assumed I think Reagan is God or something? LOL. He's the reason social security is the slush fund it is now. So, no, I don't think Reagan was the greatest thing since sliced bread. He was a good POTUS, but not the ultra-conservative that the right tries to paint him as now. I will say this though. He's the best POTUS we've had in the past 30 years. Clinton was close, but not as good.

That argument makes no sense. Obama is not doing the very same thing. Forcing insurers to provide a service that people do not have to use is hardly the same as coming in and telling people, no you can't do what you want to do in the privacy of your homes and that the government will prosecute you for things you previously were free to do. And expanding a right and privilege that is not mandatory to additional people is not getting the government into your bedroom.

Notice your word "forcing". Why is our gov't forcing any private business to do anything? Also, it is the same thing. He is FORCING Catholics to do something against their beliefs and doctrine. The same as if Santorum FORCED some of things on people the media claims he would.
Do you disagree that it is wrong for the gov't to choose what laws it wants to enforce? Because that is exactly what the Obama administration has done. They refuse to defend for DOMA. Its a law, they SHOULD have no choice. Don't make the mistake of agreeing with the Obama administration not enforcing DOMA just because you disagree with it. That's why we're in the position we're in now. At some point, the other shoe will fall and the gov't will choose not to enforce a law you do agree with. I have no problem standing by a law I don't agree with, if its a law. I don't agree with seatbelt laws, I still observe them. I don't agree that I should be funding Planned Parenthood with my tax dollars. I still pay them. Obama is the POTUS and should defend a law, he doesn't. Why? Because he thinks he's above that. Just like everyone in the House and Senate who refuse to vote for the proposed bill outlawing them from insider trading. They believe they're above that. The political attitude of entitlement and aloofness needs to get voted out. No matter the side of the aisle it comes from.
 
How do you feel about military pensions? Or free health care for military retirees and their spouses and minor children? Are they more 'entitlement' programs that should be eliminated, or are they somehow different?

Santorum is something out of the dark ages -especially as far as women and anything sexual is concerned. But then, that's how Conservatives roll, isn't it?
 
Stupid appeal to emotion is emotional

and stupid.

Hes arguing its a state issue, which it is. Whats wrong with that?

Why is it anybody's issue, other than that of the people involved? What in the hell has the state got to do with whether or not I have access to birth control? And why doesn't Rick Santorum just shut his stupid mouth about how sex is only for the purpose of creating babies? That position was popular around the time of the Spanish Inquisition, but it's gone out of favor with most people - including most Catholics.

Look, you're backing a loon. I don't expect you to admit it on this forum, but we all know it's true.
 
The republicans have too many fakes and people looking to sell books. Cain, Palin, Trump, Newt. They are self promoters. Newt is more diabolical even and is actively working to tear down Romney and reelect Obama.
 
How do you feel about military pensions? Or free health care for military retirees and their spouses and minor children? Are they more 'entitlement' programs that should be eliminated, or are they somehow different?

Santorum is something out of the dark ages -especially as far as women and anything sexual is concerned. But then, that's how Conservatives roll, isn't it?

Who is this directed at and what point does it attempt to counter?
 
Why is it anybody's issue, other than that of the people involved? What in the hell has the state got to do with whether or not I have access to birth control? And why doesn't Rick Santorum just shut his stupid mouth about how sex is only for the purpose of creating babies? That position was popular around the time of the Spanish Inquisition, but it's gone out of favor with most people - including most Catholics.

Look, you're backing a loon. I don't expect you to admit it on this forum, but we all know it's true.

Im sorry Mr "Im entitled to my opinion but a candidate isnt".
Thats Santorum's personal opinion, he has said he wont attempt o legislate it at the federal level. I know this is real ****ing hard for you hardcore liberal free thinkers, but sometimes someone can hold a position personally but not attempt to make it into codified law. Oh, wait, liberals actually try to codify speech, gun control, campaign contributions, eating habits, child rearing and a host of other things they have no god damn ****ing business in. Now take your fully hypocritical opinon and go tackle the side of the aisle youre ignoring because they agree with you.
 
Oh, you assumed I think Reagan is God or something? LOL. He's the reason social security is the slush fund it is now. So, no, I don't think Reagan was the greatest thing since sliced bread. He was a good POTUS, but not the ultra-conservative that the right tries to paint him as now. I will say this though. He's the best POTUS we've had in the past 30 years. Clinton was close, but not as good.

I'm not sure how prolonging stagflation was "good" but whatever. At least you're not a kool-aid drinker. Or so you say.

Notice your word "forcing". Why is our gov't forcing any private business to do anything?

This is a different argument then what you originally claimed.
And we force private business to do lots of things. From paying into a worker's comp fund, withholding taxes, not dumping arsenic into public waterways, there's a whole lot of stuff the government forces private business to do. And you'd be up in arms if many of those laws were not required. Do you like arsenic in your water? I'm guessing not, and the government forces them NOT to do it.

Also, it is the same thing. He is FORCING Catholics to do something against their beliefs and doctrine.

Wrong again. Something like 99% of Catholic Women use birth control. And all the requirement does is require them to pay for birth control items. It does not require Catholics to actually use them. That is in no way even comparable to Social Conservative's agenda that would regulate what we can do in our private bedrooms. Expanding services that are in no way required for end users to use is not the same as directly enacting laws that penalize people for doing things they previously were free to engage in, in their private lives.

The same as if Santorum FORCED some of things on people the media claims he would.

How the HELL is expanding a service that is option to end users the same as enacting enforcable laws that restrict what you cannot do in your private life?

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Do you disagree that it is wrong for the gov't to choose what laws it wants to enforce?

Depends on the law. There are plenty of laws ranging from local community to Federal that aren't enforced. They're called "non-enforcable/ed laws." Like how it's illegal to carry ice cream in your pocket in Alabama. The government deliberately chooses not to enforce that one.

Because that is exactly what the Obama administration has done. They refuse to defend for DOMA. Its a law, they SHOULD have no choice.

Well then becomes the issue of constitutionality. The executive branch should not enforce a law that does not abide to COTUS.

Don't make the mistake of agreeing with the Obama administration not enforcing DOMA just because you disagree with it. That's why we're in the position we're in now. At some point, the other shoe will fall and the gov't will choose not to enforce a law you do agree with. I have no problem standing by a law I don't agree with, if its a law. I don't agree with seatbelt laws, I still observe them.

So if a law is unconstitutional you think we should enforce it? And by the way, seat belt laws save thousands of lives. Disagreeing with them is pretty stupid.

Now, what exactly is your argument now? You seem to have changed it at least twice.
 
This is a different argument then what you originally claimed. [/B]And we force private business to do lots of things. From paying into a worker's comp fund, withholding taxes, not dumping arsenic into public waterways, there's a whole lot of stuff the government forces private business to do. And you'd be up in arms if many of those laws were not required. Do you like arsenic in your water? I'm guessing not, and the government forces them NOT to do it.
You're right, that wasn't my original argument, glad you were paying attention. My original point was the hypocrisy of liberals and then you decided to display the crux of the whole issue. The fact that the gov't forces businesses to do things they have no reason to get involved with. Okay, lets disect your claims here. 1) I have no problem with gov't regulating something like "arsenic dumping". When a business does something that harms others involuntarily, such as that, it should be regulated. 2) I have a problem with the FEDERAL gov't regulating workmans comp, yes. States should regulate it, and they do. Some states, (West VA comes to mind) have fully privatized their workers comp and it is a success.

Wrong again. Something like 99% of Catholic Women use birth control. And all the requirement does is require them to pay for birth control items. It does not require Catholics to actually use them. That is in no way even comparable to Social Conservative's agenda that would regulate what we can do in our private bedrooms. Expanding services that are in no way required for end users to use is not the same as directly enacting laws that penalize people for doing things they previously were free to engage in, in their private lives.
Don't care how many women use it, the religion still teaches that it is wrong. Also, would like to see a source of your 99% claim, just to tie that loose end up, thanks. The entire argument is that Catholic organizations will have to provide contraceptives to employees through their insurance. When you FORCE someone to buy and provide something they don't want to, that's wrong. I have no idea what you're talking about IRT penalizing people for doing things they previously were free to do.

Depends on the law. There are plenty of laws ranging from local community to Federal that aren't enforced. They're called "non-enforcable/ed laws." Like how it's illegal to carry ice cream in your pocket in Alabama. The government deliberately chooses not to enforce that one.
Doesn't make it right. The proper thing to do would be change the law or abolish it no? The gov't should not be allowed to pick and choose laws to enforce. We do not have the right to pick and choose laws to follow do we? Two wrongs do not make a right, which is what you imply here.

So if a law is unconstitutional you think we should enforce it? And by the way, seat belt laws save thousands of lives. Disagreeing with them is pretty stupid.
No, it shouldn't be a law to begin with. Should I have refused to deploy to Iraq in 2003 because I thought Bush deployed us under unconstitutional circumstances? No, I shouldn't have. Your statement regarding seat belt laws reinforces my argument. Most liberals love laws that restrict people, as long as it goes along with their idea of right. You could also counter you seat belt law argument with the fact that some people have been burned in their car because their seatbelt wouldn't release. Or drowned because they couldn't get out of it. Right? There's always two sides to an argument, not just your way or no way.

Now, what exactly is your argument now? You seem to have changed it at least twice.
Nah, still the same. Most liberals are hypocrites. Your post just helped me with proving that point. Thanks bro.
 
Who is this directed at and what point does it attempt to counter?

It's directed at you and countering the Right's constant moaning about 'entitlements'. I just want to know if you think all entitlements are equal, or are some more equal than others?
 
Im sorry Mr "Im entitled to my opinion but a candidate isnt".
Thats Santorum's personal opinion, he has said he wont attempt o legislate it at the federal level. I know this is real ****ing hard for you hardcore liberal free thinkers, but sometimes someone can hold a position personally but not attempt to make it into codified law. Oh, wait, liberals actually try to codify speech, gun control, campaign contributions, eating habits, child rearing and a host of other things they have no god damn ****ing business in. Now take your fully hypocritical opinon and go tackle the side of the aisle youre ignoring because they agree with you.

Oh come on! We know Ricky boy would make this bull**** social agenda a big priority for him. But even if he didn't, just holding those beliefs as his personal beliefs are enough to cause most rational people to gag at the thought of him as President of the United States.

Of course he's entitled to his bat-feces crazy opinions. And the rest of us are entitled to call him a loon because of them.
 
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Oh come on! We know Ricky boy would make this bull**** social agenda a big priority for him. But even if he didn't, just holding those beliefs as his personal beliefs are enough to cause most rational people to gag at the thought of him as President of the United States.

Of course he's entitled to his bat-feces crazy opinions. And the rest of us are entitled to call him a loon because of them.

Not one of Santorum's views are crazy.
 
Not one of Santorum's views are crazy.

Not from a "very conservative" like you, but independents think Santorum's views are more crazy than those by Obama. That's why Obama leads Santorum among independents by 12%, as noted previously.
 
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Not one of Santorum's views are crazy.

I don't know whether all of his views are crazy, but his views on gays, contraception, and almost anything to do with sex are bat-feces crazy.
 
How do you feel about military pensions? Or free health care for military retirees and their spouses and minor children? Are they more 'entitlement' programs that should be eliminated, or are they somehow different?

Santorum is something out of the dark ages -especially as far as women and anything sexual is concerned. But then, that's how Conservatives roll, isn't it?

Great attempt to take a shot at someone, but, I'll entertain it.
Military pensions: Shouldn't start immediately upon retirement. Should start at 55. I think getting shot at, blown up, being away from family for 7 months to 15 months at a time, etc for at least 20 years rates retirement 10 years earlier than a civilian, don't you? As it is, read further and you'll see why the current system has its merits.
Health care: You mean the health care I pay for? Or, the health care for people who do more physically in a week than you do in a year? Or the health care that I would still co-pay on when I retire? Or the health care provided for people who have injuries that you would never incur in the civilian sector? Like the traumatic brain injury, nerve damage, and PTSD I have from deployments to Iraq? Go ahead bro, take a shot at providing health care for someone who gets blown up so bad they defecate and urinate on themselves from the blast overpressure. And you want to call Republicans inhumane? Ha!
Lastly, you name for me one benefit someone can get from the military, besides the two above, that would attract a person who already did 4 years to a job where they earn sometimes 50%-75% less than a person doing the same job in the civilian sector. Thats the main justification for military entitlements. The pay sucks so bad its the only way you can get someone to stay in past 4 years, or even enlist to begin with when you bring the GI Bill into it. In addition, would you rather have a bunch of vets with PTSD and TBI roaming the streets with no health care? We tried that. It was called Vietnam. That didn't work out so well, did it?
 
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You're right, that wasn't my original argument, glad you were paying attention. My original point was the hypocrisy of liberals and then you decided to display the crux of the whole issue.

Only if we abandon logic entirely.

The fact that the gov't forces businesses to do things they have no reason to get involved with. Okay, lets disect your claims here. 1) I have no problem with gov't regulating something like "arsenic dumping". When a business does something that harms others involuntarily, such as that, it should be regulated. 2) I have a problem with the FEDERAL gov't regulating workmans comp, yes. States should regulate it, and they do. Some states, (West VA comes to mind) have fully privatized their workers comp and it is a success.[/quote[

So you pick and choose what you think the Government should force business to do. Except when it comes to expanding rights and services, it's wrong to force them to do so?

Don't care how many women use it, the religion still teaches that it is wrong.

Religion also teaches us that it's wrong for women to be teachers. I don't see you getting all fussy about that. Seriously, the whole "religion teaches" us argument is ENTIRELY CRAP as there are so many things we flagrantly ignore from all sorts of religions. Our economy is based on deliberately ignoring "thou shall not covet your neighbors' goods." The fundamental basis of our economy is based on pretending one of the 10 Commandments does not exist. The notion that because religion says so is a good argument highlights an almost immeasurable amount of hypocrisy by the person using the argument. You are basically creating your own religion by picking and choosing what you want to follow and what you want to ignore.

Also, would like to see a source of your 99% claim, just to tie that loose end up, thanks. The entire argument is that Catholic organizations will have to provide contraceptives to employees through their insurance. When you FORCE someone to buy and provide something they don't want to, that's wrong. I have no idea what you're talking about IRT penalizing people for doing things they previously were free to do.

Obama

By your logic, it's wrong to force a coal company to buy sulfur scrubbers to prevent acid rain because they didn't want to. Hint: this is just an example to prove your argument is hypocritical.

What the hell is the IRT?

Doesn't make it right. The proper thing to do would be change the law or abolish it no? The gov't should not be allowed to pick and choose laws to enforce. We do not have the right to pick and choose laws to follow do we? Two wrongs do not make a right, which is what you imply here.

So you are saying that the Government should enforce a law that is questionably unconstitutional? A law that the Justice Department itself called unconstitutional?

U.S. Justice Department argues that Defense of Marriage Act is unconstitutional

You do realize that you are asking the President to essentially ignore the oath he gave no? By requiring him to require the Justice Department to enforce a law that goes against the very document he promised to uphold?

No, it shouldn't be a law to begin with.

Well it's too late now.

Should I have refused to deploy to Iraq in 2003 because I thought Bush deployed us under unconstitutional circumstances? No, I shouldn't have. Your statement regarding seat belt laws reinforces my argument. Most liberals love laws that restrict people, as long as it goes along with their idea of right.

Actually it prevents you from turning into an airborne projectile that can harm other people. People not wearing selt-belts have been thrown from cars before. By that reasoning given your previous pro-laws that prevent harm to others, you must agree with it as well. Or you are a hypocrite who picks and chooses what he wants without any form of consistency whatsoever. And to correct your asinine comment most people love laws that restrict people, as long as it goes along with their idea of right.

You could also counter you seat belt law argument with the fact that some people have been burned in their car because their seatbelt wouldn't release. Or drowned because they couldn't get out of it. Right? There's always two sides to an argument, not just your way or no way.

See above human projectile.

Nah, still the same. Most liberals are hypocrites. Your post just helped me with proving that point. Thanks bro.

Only if you abandon logic entirely.
 
In other words, Romney is the most moderate, which is an advantage in the general election. I think Santorum would get slaughtered as he would be a complete turnoff for independents and women.

You don't think Santorum does well with the ladies, is that what you're getting at?
 
Oh come on! We know Ricky boy would make this bull**** social agenda a big priority for him. But even if he didn't, just holding those beliefs as his personal beliefs are enough to cause most rational people to gag at the thought of him as President of the United States.

Of course he's entitled to his bat-feces crazy opinions. And the rest of us are entitled to call him a loon because of them.

I see ad hom after ad hom. Why dont you try debating and leave the melodramatic horse crap at the door. I also see an appeal and a slippery slope. Do you have reason to believe Santorum is going to go against his stated positions? If so, provide some proof. I know diving into social issues is how liberals think they can beat Santorum, but you have to prove that hes going to make them part of a legislative agenda. Which means you need to prove hes lying. Go ahead, do so.
 
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