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Santorum on CNN

Zyphlin said:
I'd LOVE to see a candidate saying we've got real issues in this country, real...immediete...important issues and we need to bring people together on those issues that are fixable now. Unfortunately, no such likely candidate is running at this point in time.
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You don't think that Ron Paul fits into this category? His focus being our economy and our foreign policy, both with are real issuse that need immediate solutions.

Also, women on the front line? I am fine with that. Will there be a tough transistion period? Yes. Will the mentality of those on the front line have to change? Yes. Holding women and men to the same standards while on the front line is paramount. Yes, not all women can match men physically, doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed on the front. Put them in the same training as the men and those who can't cut it, don't go to the front. It's not rocket science.
 
Amigo said:
Thing is, abortion is murder, so it is a MAJOR issue.
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So Santorum will fight to protect the unborn fetuses of America, but will let an untold number of Americans die in a war with Iran. Got it.
 
Chaddelamancha said:
So Santorum will fight to protect the unborn babies of America, but will let an untold number of Americans die in a war with Iran. Got it.
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Fixed it.

If it's a just war...it's a different story.
 
TheNextEra said:
Ok on the abortion thing, most people don't think that rape victims that became pregnant due to the rape should view the baby as a "gift from God". Just saying.
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Most people can understand that two wrongs don't make a right.

Rape and incest are terrible things, but so is murder/infanticide.

The fact is, most Americans are uncomfortable with abortion.
 
Amigo said:
Thing is, abortion is murder, so it is a MAJOR issue.
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Well if your wife get's pregnant due to rape I'm sure you'll be supportive in not only having her keep it, but raising the bastard's child as your own as well. For the rest of us, abortion is perfectly acceptable in that regard.
 
Peter Grimm said:
Most people can understand that two wrongs don't make a right.
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Well if your wife is raped and gets pregnant I'm sure you'll enjoy rasining the bastard's child as your own. The rest of us will choose abortion as an option.
 
TheNextEra said:
Fact is most Americans approve of abortion in the case of rape/incest.
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Fact is that 1% of elective abortions are performed because of rape and incest.
 
nota bene said:
Fact is that 1% of elective abortions are performed because of rape and incest.
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And Rick "the rapist's baby is a gift from god" Santorum would elimiate that if he can. No thank you, he doesn't belong in Whitehouse.
 
TheNextEra said:
Well if your wife get's pregnant due to rape I'm sure you'll be supportive in not only having her keep it, but raising the bastard's child as your own as well. For the rest of us, abortion is perfectly acceptable in that regard.
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Pretty much what I would do. Show love for everybody (but the rapist :x).
 
TheNextEra said:
And Rick "the rapist's baby is a gift from god" Santorum would elimiate that if he can. No thank you, he doesn't belong in Whitehouse.
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What said was actually constitutional. ;)
 
Anybody who is that intwined into his religon can't be beneficial to this country.
 
Yeah, I think I see abortion in a different way than some people. You can approach the morality of it somewhat logically.

Killing a newborn baby is horribly, unspeakably wrong, and almost every person on the planet would agree with this.

Killing a one-celled fetus is not wrong in a really appreciable way (to me), because most people have countless miscarriages at this point without ever having known they were pregnant. Many actually abort these fetuses accidentally through medicine or alcohol or things like that, simply because they did not know they were pregnant.

This implies that an action goes from being not TOO morally questionable to being completely despicable. I do not, however, think that this point can be defined as a singular instance. Is it when the heart starts to beat? When the brain starts to function? The whole question becomes rather hazy here, so there is much room for debate. I personally think that abortion near the end of the currently-allowed time-frame should not be allowed, as the baby tries to escape from the procedure, and the way in which it must be done is absolutely gruesome. However, coming into this whole calculus are the effects upon the mother. This can shift the time-period slightly, but it still can't make a 5-month abortion okay.

I don't think there are very many people who take abortion lightly, and almost all of them feel as if they have done something wrong afterwards. Regardless of whether you see it as right or wrong, I think people should make an effort to see the situation from the other side. If you honestly, trully think that a one-celled fetus is a baby in all the same ways as a newborn, then of course you would crusade to stop abortion. Vice versa, people who are pro-choice simply DO NOT see it this way. To them, a one-celled fetus has nothing in common with a newborn, beyond the potential to eventually be a newborn (which, if wrong, would also imply that masturbating, or ovulating without reproduction, or doing anything that might decrease sperm or egg count would be wrong). These two views are somewhat irreconcilable, but it does not make the people of either side bad people.
 
Republic Now! said:
If someone believes abortion is murder then why wouldn't they want it illegal? It's not a matter of pushing your opinion, it's a matter of stopping murder from occurring.
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It is not within the power, let alone responsibility of the President to legislate society...thus we have a separate branch of government. This branch has spoken, and quite clearly in Roe vs. Wade. Of all the citizens in this country, I would expect my President to respect this, whether he agrees with it or not.

And YES, it is a matter of pushing your opinion, in fact that is EXACTLY what it is...there can be no other way of explaining what you just typed...period.
 
TheNextEra said:
Well if your wife is raped and gets pregnant I'm sure you'll enjoy rasining the bastard's child as your own. The rest of us will choose abortion as an option.
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You're talking about a person. It's not the child's fault what happened. Take your spite out on the right person... the rapist.... not on an innocent life.
 
Amigo said:
Thing is, abortion is murder, so it is a MAJOR issue.
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This is actually verifiably 100% unture save for after a specific point in time during the pregnancy in some states. Otherwise, no...its not.

It's also an issue he has no power to directly affect, at least in terms of its legality, in the near term as POTUS.
 
tecoyah said:
It is not within the power, let alone responsibility of the President to legislate society...thus we have a separate branch of government. This branch has spoken, and quite clearly in Roe vs. Wade. Of all the citizens in this country, I would expect my President to respect this, whether he agrees with it or not.
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That's not what you said before. You said:
It is one thing to be against abortion....and another to take away another persons personal freedom simply because YOU have an opinion.
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If you're implying that a president who is against abortion would support and approve of anything banning abortion then, yes, that's probably true.

If you're saying the he's somehow going to magically get abortion banned because he wants to even though he has no authority to do so then, no, that's absurd.

And YES, it is a matter of pushing your opinion, in fact that is EXACTLY what it is...there can be no other way of explaining what you just typed...period.
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By that logic every law is a matter of one "pushing their opinion." Explain then, if something thinks abortion is murder, why they would treat it any differently than murder of any other kind? What would you do if murder became legal? Would you just sit there and say "eh, cool, I choose not to murder but if others want to I'm not gonna push my opinion."
 
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TheNextEra said:
Fact is most Americans approve of abortion in the case of rape/incest.
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Ask people what they think about abortion, and most pro-abortion people will tell you the same thing.

Men: "I don't know, it's a woman's issue."

Women: "I would never have one, but I wouldn't tell anyone else that they can't."

People are not comfortable with abortion... with the exception of left-wing radicals. A great number of people tolerate it, though.
 
Amigo said:
Thing is, abortion is murder, so it is a MAJOR issue.
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In the real, legal world, not so much. However, in the bible thumping world, you are correct. There are many other crimes (sins) in that world. To wit:
  • Homosexuality.
  • Contraception.
  • Masturbation.
  • Any sexual activity between man and wife that is not intended to procreate.
  • Of course, the 7 deadly sins: Pride, greed, envy, anger, lust, gluttony, and sloth. Cutting a pretty wide swath there.
  • Interracial marriage (at least back in the day).
  • Probably smoking and drinking of alchohol, especially to excess (drinking at all, based upon prohibition efforts in the early 20th century).
  • Adultery.
  • Lying.
  • Cursing.
So, before you put the Christian Taliban in office, one might want to see if their own activities can pass muster and not propel them to the gulag.
 
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Zyphlin said:
This is actually verifiably 100% unture save for after a specific point in time during the pregnancy in some states. Otherwise, no...its not.

It's also an issue he has no power to directly affect, at least in terms of its legality, in the near term as POTUS.
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You need to change your lean from Conservative immediately. You are no conservative.

The President can appoint Supreme Court justices. Roe v Wade can be overturned.
 
Amigo said:
Fixed it.

If it's a just war...it's a different story.
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People, fetuses, babies, death is death. How can you make exception for war?

No one has the right to tell me that I can't have an abortion. Their body, their choice.
 
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Peter Grimm said:
You need to change your lean from Conservative immediately. You are no conservative.

The President can appoint Supreme Court justices. Roe v Wade can be overturned.
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It should never be. Anybody who wants that to be overturned is a moron.
 
Karl said:
In the real, legal world, not so much. However, in the bible thumping world, you are correct. There are many other crimes (sins) in that world. To wit:
  • Homosexuality.
  • Contraception.
  • Masturbation.
  • Any sexual activity between man and wife that is not intended to procreate.
  • Of course, the 7 deadly sins: Pride, greed, envy, anger, lust, gluttony, and sloth. Cutting a pretty wide swath there.
  • Interracial marriage (at least back in the day).
  • Probably smoking and drinking of alchohol, especially to excess (drinking at all, based upon prohibition efforts in the early 20th century).
  • Adultery.
  • Lying.
  • Cursing.
So, before you put the Christian Taliban in office, one might want to see if their own activities can pass muster and not propel them to the gulag.
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In the "real, legal world," slavery was once acceptable. Don't make me rattle off a long list of atrocities that have been committed "legally" in nations around the world.

Morality is separate from legality.
 
Chaddelamancha said:
People, fetuses, babies, death is death. How can you make exception for war?

No one has the right to tell me that I can't have an abortion. My body, my choice.
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You don't have the right to murder an innocent child, just because that child is physically connected to you. Do siamese twins have the right to murder each other because they share organs?
 
Peter Grimm said:
You need to change your lean from Conservative immediately. You are no conservative.
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Because I believe Words have Meanings? I'm pretty sure one of the biggest personalities of Conservatism in this country expouses that saying on a rather routine basis.

Words have Meanings.

Abortion is Killing

Abortion isn't Murder, because Murder is Illegal Killing.

Abortoin isn't illegal, ergo it can't be murder. It can be Killing. Simply because its "killing" doesn't suggest that its okay, good, or moral. The fact you and others have such a hangup on having to use the word "Murder", to the point where you're baselessly proclaim me "not a conservative" becasue I won't subscribe to your erroniously used word, is a testiment to the fact that the only reason you all use the word isn't for accuracy but for a pathetic emotional plea.

The President can appoint Supreme Court justices. Roe v Wade can be overturned.
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Presidents can appoint Supreme Court Justices. They can't control when one steps down to create a vacancy. They can't control how they vote once they're in. They can't control what cases are brought before them. And if "Judges" is your primary worry then the issue of the Supreme Court and geting the right judges in those seats goes FAR beyond simply abortion, and thus focusing singularly on abortion and using "because he'll appoint SCOTUS judges" as your excuse for it essentially devalues the larger issue where as you could focus on the fact you're appoint strict constructionists to the court which would then cover Abortion under that Umbrella along with many other things.
 
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