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Cain: For the poor, it's '9-0-9'

It's funny how so many republicans decry taxes and tax increases, yet they fully support a tax increase on themselves and seem to not even realize it. It just shows how clueless people are about their taxes, their tax rates, and how much they are actually paying. They support plans under which they'll be paying more and rich will be paying less, and middle class republicans are so quick to defend lower taxes for the wealthy. I don't know what to call that except duped maybe brainwashed... IDK, but it's definitely not informed.
 
I couldn't if i tried....eating only tacos..or kentucky fried..

You left out the other food group. Hamburgers, gotta have a balanced diet ya know;)
 
You're going to oppose everything Herman Cain suggests, because he's a black Conservative. ;)

And out comes the race card. Well done!
 
It's funny how so many republicans decry taxes and tax increases, yet they fully support a tax increase on themselves and seem to not even realize it. It just shows how clueless people are about their taxes, their tax rates, and how much they are actually paying. They support plans under which they'll be paying more and rich will be paying less, and middle class republicans are so quick to defend lower taxes for the wealthy. I don't know what to call that except duped maybe brainwashed... IDK, but it's definitely not informed.
Some are taking a principled altruistic stance just as Buffett does against his own interest on the other side.
But Many are just plain stupid.
They have been Duped by Rich GOPers like the 'Fairtax', or now actually the pre-Fairtax-9/9/9, crowd into believing their lots are joined. They aren't.
There's nothing more pathetic than watching these people post.
 
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I couldn't if i tried....eating only tacos..or kentucky fried..

You know..one day I was chillin in Kentucky fried chicken. Mindin my business, eat food and finger lickin. Dude walks in lookin strange and kinda funny. Went up to the counter with his order and his money......
 
Which righties have been complaining about poor people not paying taxes? I know I never have and I'm quite sure I speak for 99% of the Conservatives in this forum.

Turtledude:

complete BS

if you have a TV or a cell phone you can afford a little tax

and you miss the point

IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD MORE TAXES maybe you won't be so eager to demand more GOVERNMENT spending if you actually might have to pay a few more dollars to pay for it

saying 47% of the public cannot pay at least some income tax is a complete, total and utter lie

and people like me pay way too much

most of those in the bottom 90% pay a very low amount of federal income taxes compared to their income. less than 15% effective rates to ZERO while those in the top 5% are paying more than 20% and as high as 25% or so. some people with very high salaries-actors, athletes are paying close to 30% effective rates.

but you confuse again from each according to their ability (which I reject) with value received. the rich receive the LEAST VALUE for tax dollar paid. The poor the most



Fox:

FOXNews.com - Tax the Poor - Opinion

Last fall, the Wall Street Journal ran an editorial entitled "The Non-Taxpaying Class." The editorial, which dubbed those too poor to pay taxes "lucky duckies," won the Journal widespread ridicule from big-hearted egalitarians throughout the world of media and punditry.

But the Wall Street Journal was right. There are now more than 16 million Americans who file tax returns but pay no taxes. And that's not because we're getting poorer. America is getting richer. Fewer people are paying taxes because more and more politicians are succumbing to class warfare, and granting more and more exemptions to an increasingly complex tax code.

snip.

It's time for a politician with moxie to stand up and say what no politician would never say: It's time to tax the poor.

The argument here isn't that the federal government needs more money. It isn't that the rich badly need tax relief. The argument is that if all Americans are to "benefit" from the ever-ballooning federal government, then all Americans should pay for it.
 
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So when does the 9-1-1 plan come out?
 
She's real fine my 9-0-9,
She's real fine my 9-0-9,

My nine ooooooh nine......

Well I saved my pennies and I saved my dimes.....giddy up giddy up 9-0-9.....
 
OMFG!!!! You have to be kidding me!!! Not that I'm surprised about this, but Herman Cain has lost ALL credibility in my mind. The SOB calls himself a Conservative? I don't think so. Sorry Herman, time to go back to making pizzas, you won't be getting any amount of support from me.
 
If the rich want to pay 999, then they are more than welcome to, but the government shouldn't go all socialist on us and force them to pay more than the poor. :prof
 
If the rich want to pay 999, then they are more than welcome to, but the government shouldn't go all socialist on us and force them to pay more than the poor. :prof

Exactly. The poor need to be disincentivized. We need to stop making it more profitable to be poor than to be middle class. Make these people pay their fair share and suddenly there will no longer be an incentive to be in this class.
 
Exactly. The poor need to be disincentivized. We need to stop making it more profitable to be poor than to be middle class. Make these people pay their fair share and suddenly there will no longer be an incentive to be in this class.

I have been poor, rich (when I was a teenager, my parents are pretty wealthy), and middle class throughout my life and trust me. Being poor sucks the worst, even with government help.
 
I have been poor, rich (when I was a teenager, my parents are pretty wealthy), and middle class throughout my life and trust me. Being poor sucks the worst, even with government help.

EXCELLENT. It SHOULD suck the worst. In fact it should suck a lot more than it does currently.
 
EXCELLENT. It SHOULD suck the worst. In fact it should suck a lot more than it does currently.

It should suck exactly as much as need to accomplish the following:
1. Cultivate any great minds that might have had the unfortunate luck of being born to a poor family, but can be utilized to advance society. This means public schooling at the very least and even more for any achievers that can be identified.
2. The poor need to be comfortable, and even more important, hopeful enough to not revolt, because, while they are on the bottom rung, our economic system needs them as much as any other economic class.
3. They should not be treated in an inhumane fashion, which means, at the very least, basic healthcare, allocations for human rights concerns, leisure time, the ability to rise through the ranks, food shelter, etc. Perhaps not luxuries, but there is a real human need for downtime, play, and fun, this is as important as food.

The question is, how much can be achieved through private means and which needs help through public means?
 
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Exactly. The poor need to be disincentivized.

ok, i think i see an opportunity here.

conservatives seem to really latch onto the "lazy poor people" slogan. however, there really aren't enough jobs to give them the opportunity to work their way up.

how about we disincentivize poverty and greed at the same time by taxing the very rich and using that money to hire the poor?
 
ok, i think i see an opportunity here.

conservatives seem to really latch onto the "lazy poor people" slogan. however, there really aren't enough jobs to give them the opportunity to work their way up.

how about we disincentivize poverty and greed at the same time by taxing the very rich and using that money to hire the poor?

LOL. I've said it before.... I don't advocate the addition of a single penny of tax revenue from anyone who is currently paying income tax until two things happen....

1. We remove ALL unConstitutional spending from the US Budget.
2. We remove the tax floor so the poor are paying into the system that they take so much out of.
 
LOL. I've said it before.... I don't advocate the addition of a single penny of tax revenue from anyone who is currently paying income tax until two things happen....

1. We remove ALL unConstitutional spending from the US Budget.
2. We remove the tax floor so the poor are paying into the system that they take so much out of.

Those are both arguable, but I"ll go with the second one.

The POOR are paying into the system? How do you propose we do that? Class-warfare anyone? You can't tax the poor because they don't have money. Think about why increasing taxes on the rich and why increasing taxes on the poor is different. If I make 100k a year (Rich by no means, upper middle class maybe), 1% of that is 1k. If I make 10k a year (Poor), then 1% of that is 100 bucks. I don't know what math you took but 1% of 100k is definitely more money than 1% of 10k. So lets ignore the fact that you are probably stealing a few maels from the poor person. They CAN'T and DON'T have the money to contribute to society. If say 25% of americans are poor, we'll use them making 10k a year at a 1% tax. That is only 7 billion dollars and you have then put stress on people that already are stressed, financially of course. I hate people that think a poor person doesn't go to work 8 hours every day and is only poor because of the fact that A) They didn't invest in their future (AKA College) and/or B) Didn't get born into a society with options. Most probably fall into the B category. Anyways, explain to me how you think it is okay or even sane to expect the poor to pay taxes (minus sales tax which they already pay)
 
Exactly. The poor need to be disincentivized. We need to stop making it more profitable to be poor than to be middle class. Make these people pay their fair share and suddenly there will no longer be an incentive to be in this class.

Do you honestly believe people want to be poor or are poor by choice? Have you studied history? the bible? Do you really know anyone caught in the cycle of poverty? Have you spent anytime at a homeless shelter or equivalent charity for the disadvantaged?

Sorry, but I think you are speaking rather insensitively on a subject you know little about.
 
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Do you honestly believe people want to be poor or are poor by choice? Have you studied history? the bible? Do you really know anyone caught in the cycle of poverty? Have you spent anytime at a homeless shelter or equivalent charity for the disadvantaged?

Sorry, but I think you are speaking rather insensitively on a subject you know little about.

I honestly believe that most of them are poor because of bad decisions that THEY made. They dropped out of school. The chose to become criminals. They chose to get pregnant before being married and end up as single mothers. Nobody forced those choices onto them.

As for the "cycle of poverty".... I grew up in a town of roughly 50,000 people in Central Connecticut. The population was roughly 30% minority at the time, and a large portion of that minority population received some form of City/State/Federal aid. I went to school with a good number of those people's children. Kids who used to laugh about getting FREE premium cable, their parents buying candy, cigarettes, and beer with their WIC checks, etc... and how their parents were teaching THEM the ways to "game" the system to their own benefit. Therefore these kids felt no need to achieve anything in school because they never intended to make anything out of themselves. In fact I know of two individuals personally (and stories of many more) who TURNED DOWN reasonable paying jobs because it would have disqualified them for some of those government programs.

I go out of my way to avoid homeless shelters, soup kitchens, and places of that sort. I have no problem helping people who DESERVE the help (I left a $650 check with a friend of mine in PA last Monday to fill their oil tank for the winter); but I will be damned if I'm going to lift a finger to help those who are not willing to do everything in their own power to help themselves.
 
christ, i can't wait for his next magic numbers plan.
 
Those are both arguable, but I"ll go with the second one.

I'm glad you chose the second one, because I don't want to disgrace the US Constitution by having to roll it up and beat you with it like a disobedient dog if you'd chosen the first one.

The POOR are paying into the system? How do you propose we do that? Class-warfare anyone? You can't tax the poor because they don't have money. Think about why increasing taxes on the rich and why increasing taxes on the poor is different. If I make 100k a year (Rich by no means, upper middle class maybe), 1% of that is 1k. If I make 10k a year (Poor), then 1% of that is 100 bucks. I don't know what math you took but 1% of 100k is definitely more money than 1% of 10k. So lets ignore the fact that you are probably stealing a few maels from the poor person. They CAN'T and DON'T have the money to contribute to society. If say 25% of americans are poor, we'll use them making 10k a year at a 1% tax. That is only 7 billion dollars and you have then put stress on people that already are stressed, financially of course. I hate people that think a poor person doesn't go to work 8 hours every day and is only poor because of the fact that A) They didn't invest in their future (AKA College) and/or B) Didn't get born into a society with options. Most probably fall into the B category. Anyways, explain to me how you think it is okay or even sane to expect the poor to pay taxes (minus sales tax which they already pay)

Let's stipulate that we're not talking about sales taxes here, and move forward from there.

The poor are NOT paying into the system, and that's part of the problem so far as I am concerned. Right now that lack of payment, and the fact that many get back more than they put in via the EITC is an INCENTIVE to stay below the poverty line. I am completely against any system that proposes to support or assist any individual or family that is not working to move itself out of that class. I do fully support the system they are now using in Wisconsin, where education and job training is provided, and afterwards you either better yourself or you lose your benefits.

Your A & B are silly. It's not a matter of going to college or not.... many of these individuals never finished HIGH SCHOOL, which they don't have to pay anything for. We make our own options in life. Some may be more difficult to create than others, but we have to put the effort in if we want to get something out.
 
The poor are NOT paying into the system, and that's part of the problem so far as I am concerned. Right now that lack of payment, and the fact that many get back more than they put in via the EITC is an INCENTIVE to stay below the poverty line.

While I am against getting back more than you paid, I can actually attest to this as this was me last year. Why? Because I was in school full time and couldn't find a job until October. I ended up having to quit in November so guess what? I made a whopping 2400 dollars last year and paid about 250 in federal taxes. You know how much I got back? Somewhere around 500. And I re-did the tax form 3 times online trying to get that number down, but finally it said the EITC is what is helping me. While I appreciated the extra bucks....what was that? 250 bucks? If you think a free 250 bucks one time is an incentive to continue to make only 2500 a year, you're nuts.

Fast forward to today. Completely forgetting about the incentive for me to remain poor because of that 250 dollar tax credit, I got a job. I am on my way to earning over 30,000 this year. While it may not be much for some of you, its twice what I've ever made in my life and will probably go up next year. My expenses are extremely low. My savings are high considering my income. I just bought a house. A brick home. On an acre of land. Beautiful huge trees cover the entire property. I dropped 20% down and could have easily done 40 to 50% if I had wanted to. It will be paid off in under 10 years flat. I could pay it off earlier if I want, but I don't want to dig into my savings. I bought a brand new NICE tight turn riding mower, brand new very nice weedeater, a Mercedes Benz, a brand new self clean electric range, a brand new fridge/freezer and I'm fixing to put a new roof on my house.

I'm not bragging, I'm just saying that the 250 I got extra was no more an incentive to remain poor than flying to the moon. I forgot about it as fast as I got it back. My focus was on improving my standard of living, not sucking off the gov't. I can't speak for myself, but I think that saying the EITC is an incentive to stay poor is a bit of a stretch.
 
dontworry.... Very nice story, and I'm glad to hear it. You however have a little different situation than most of these people. You, like me and the rest of the workers in this country take some PRIDE in yourself. You have some DIGNITY. You don't want to be a taker. Most of these poor people do not have those things, or the self-respect that comes with them. They are HAPPY to take from the system because they feel they're OWED something because of their race, their ethnic background, or some other bad thing that happened to them. For them that extra $250 IS an incentive. I've had people say it to my face that things like the EITC are exactly what allows them to remain living a decent lifestyle. These people know every loophole and how to game the system. The friend in PA I mentioned earlier has neighbors who can't figure out why she works and won't take advantage of all the programs out there to just sit around on her ass all day like they do.
 
dontworry.... Very nice story, and I'm glad to hear it. You however have a little different situation than most of these people. You, like me and the rest of the workers in this country take some PRIDE in yourself. You have some DIGNITY. You don't want to be a taker. Most of these poor people do not have those things, or the self-respect that comes with them. They are HAPPY to take from the system because they feel they're OWED something because of their race, their ethnic background, or some other bad thing that happened to them. For them that extra $250 IS an incentive. I've had people say it to my face that things like the EITC are exactly what allows them to remain living a decent lifestyle. These people know every loophole and how to game the system. The friend in PA I mentioned earlier has neighbors who can't figure out why she works and won't take advantage of all the programs out there to just sit around on her ass all day like they do.

I guess I see your point, although, like you I see, are on the fence. Some people don't take advantage of it and some do... Sucks we might have to ruin it for everybody because some want to be lazy. Sort of a on topic story, I had a childhood friend who took advantage of the system. She was working at Red Robin and she slipped and fell. She then claims she can't work because she has to go to therapy for her ankle for a year. I remind you now that she is going on vacations, that her mother payed for, nights out at the bar, that her mother payed for, etc etc. While I think parents should support their children, if they are out drinking that is something that an unemployed person can do without. Bad parenting, but anyways. She then goes to claim for all of these medical expenses, including time she should've worked. She gets something around $10k. 10k is a lot for someone who is 21 living with their parents. The jerk took that money, remember her injury was her ankle, and bought a 4 wheeler. I mean WTF come on? I would love to have gotten 10k (which I don't think she deserves). I wouldn't of bought some new thing, I would've invested it in my education. People like this, piss me off. There are probably more like me that would've loved that money and considered it a grant. Nope, I guess only the assholes get the easy way out sometimes. Also I'll add that I do think people should be payed for their injuries, but she didn't have a single injury from what any of her friends could tell. She also spent it on something that would, as I would see it, damage her ankle more.
 
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