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Obamacare Based Off Romneycare - MIT Professor

I agree, but the electorate is more tuned to policy this election than in previous ones - and that means a higher focus on debate performance. Perry needs to stop digging or have some kind of serious positive cycle now to pull that off.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
I'm not understanding what you are saying, are you saying all of the other candidates are birthers? not ONE SINGLE candidate is not a birther, other than Romney?
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No I am saying what the poll I referenced showed, that a majority of the Republican primary voters, the ones that will decide the primary winner, are birthers. Because of that, they are less likely to choose a candidate of color in the primary election.
 
Catawba said:
No I am saying what the poll I referenced showed, that a majority of the Republican primary voters, the ones that will decide the primary winner, are birthers. Because of that, they are less likely to choose a candidate of color in the primary election.
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Is there a candidate 'of color'(whatever that means?) available?
 
DarkWizard12 said:
Is there a candidate 'of color'(whatever that means?) available?
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Hope this helps:

"Person of color (plural: people of color; persons of color) is a term used, primarily in the United States, to describe all people who are not white. The term is meant to be inclusive among non-white groups, emphasizing common experiences of racism. People of color was introduced as a preferable replacement to both non-white and minority, which are also inclusive, because it frames the subject positively"
Person of color - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
CONSagainROMNEY said:
My sentiments exactly. Romney would be jsut as bad for this country as Obama and he wold be even WORSE for the Republican Party because of how far to the LEFT he wants to shift us. Electing Romeny would be like electing another corporate Democrat in the Clinton/Gore/Kerry mold!
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What is the Gore/Kerry mode? Last I looked they were never elected president.
 
Bardo said:
I don't understand why Romneycare is acceptable because it's on the state level, while the main beef with Obamacare is that the government is mandating a product. Why does it make a difference if the state government is making you buy something instead of the federal government? Isn't the logic the exact same?
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States are allowed to tinker with stuff like this by design. It was the intended purpose of the Founders to give states this type of authority. The Constitution never would have been ratified otherwise. That doesn't mean the Federal Government can mandate something across all 50 states, apparently now unless they use the "taxing authority" of Congress.

That doesn't make it a mandate anymore though. It makes it a massive tax on the poor and middle class which it what it is.

CONSagainROMNEY said:
My sentiments exactly. Romney would be jsut as bad for this country as Obama and he wold be even WORSE for the Republican Party because of how far to the LEFT he wants to shift us. Electing Romeny would be like electing another corporate Democrat in the Clinton/Gore/Kerry mold!
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15% Real Unemployment

5 trillion in new debt

You're going to have to come up with some better talking points. The new tactic is to try and dissuade Romney voters while conveniently not having to talk about your failed messiah's record. It won't work.
 
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Bronson said:
States are allowed to tinker with stuff like this by design. It was the intended purpose of the Founders to give states this type of authority. The Constitution never would have been ratified otherwise. That doesn't mean the Federal Government can mandate something across all 50 states, apparently now unless they use the "taxing authority" of Congress.

That doesn't make it a mandate anymore though. It makes it a massive tax on the poor and middle class which it what it is.



15% Real Unemployment

5 trillion in new debt

You're going to have to come up with some better talking points. The new tactic is to try and dissuade Romney voters while conveniently not having to talk about your failed messiah's record. It won't work.
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Bronson, try to be a bit more open-minded and perhaps you will be able to understand my position - because right now you are way off base and making some absurd asumptions about me.
I'm a Conservative. A pro-life, pro-gun, anti gay marriage FISCAL Conservative. Do you see anything in that description of myself that would make me want to vote for Romney? THere were a half dozen canidates in the Republican primaries that were head and shoulders above Romeny in terms of their records as COnservative and a half dozen others, who decided not to run, who are viable Conservatve canidates and who represent my values. Romney is a Liberal Republican, which is basically the same thing as a Corporate Democrat imo, another Bill Clinton or John Kerry or Al Gore...If he gets the Republican nomination and then becomes POTUS then the Republican Party as we know it - the party of Lincoln/Eisenhower/Reagan will no longer exist. It will look more like the Democrat Party of Michael Dukakis and Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton. Men who never served in the military and who are liberal with my hard earned tax dollars!
 
Editting because I just realized someone necro'ed a 9 month old thread.

Romney sucks on healthcare. Obama does too. Congrats, you mark that issue off and move onto secondary issues to decide. Additionally, I have more faith that...due to his flip flopping, go with what's politically advantageous nature....Romney would sign a bill that repeals it more so than I believe Obama would.
 
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*edit...

just read Zyphlin's realization of a necro'd thread and realized that this was a really old necro'd thread.
 
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Romney is only saying he'll repeal the ACA to placate the Teatards.
 
Zyphlin said:
Editting because I just realized someone necro'ed a 9 month old thread.

Romney sucks on healthcare. Obama does too. Congrats, you mark that issue off and move onto secondary issues to decide. Additionally, I have more faith that...due to his flip flopping, go with what's politically advantageous nature....Romney would sign a bill that repeals it more so than I believe Obama would.
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I think it is exactly because of his flip flopping that Romney can NOT be relied on in any way shape or form to put forth the COnservative agenda when it comes to Health Care. Just look at his comments while he was in Isreal, PRAISING Isreal's national healhcare system that has a MANDATE!!!
Plus look at his RomneyCare in Mass. This shows me that you can't even say that Romney is the lesser of the two evils in this case. His RomneyCare is just as bad if not worse than ObamaCare
 
Romney's flip flps are actually rather easy to predict. What will be more advantageous to his political career.

The only way health care gets overturned is if Republicans get a majority in both houses. If the Republicans gain enough support to get both houses and the Presidency, there's no question that signing off on that bill would be more advantageous to his political career then not signing it.

I read something on here before that sums Romney up pretty well....Romney's political ideology is "Romney should be President". He's flip flopped a ton, but it's also incredibly easy to predict how he'll flip flop
 
washunut said:
What is the Gore/Kerry mode? Last I looked they were never elected president.
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What I'm saying is that they were all in the frame of mind of spending our hard earned tax dollars in a very LIBERAL fashion - just like Romney. Plus they were both big supporters of ObamaCare/RomneyCare(same thing). Actually, if you look at Al Gores record and ideology, he was actually MORE conservative that Romney on many occasions. Do you remember Tipper Gore's campaign against music videos in the 80s? I never saw Ann Romney out there speaking out against some of that smut that Madonna and Prince was prancing about right int he face of American teenagers during that time!
 
CONSagainROMNEY said:
My sentiments exactly. Romney would be jsut as bad for this country as Obama and he wold be even WORSE for the Republican Party because of how far to the LEFT he wants to shift us. Electing Romeny would be like electing another corporate Democrat in the Clinton/Gore/Kerry mold!
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LMFAO @ outing yourself as a Democrat in no better way than by searching the old archives to comment onto a post from LAST YEAR!!!


Commonwealth Care was done as a collaborative process with Republican, Democrat, and Independent politicians, Outside think tanks, Business leaders, Healthcare workers, Health Insurance Companies, etc. They came together to create the legislation, which actually dropped the cost of healthcare for MA. They worked together with the companies to create pools to help cover the impoverished and unemployed that could not afford their own plans at a subsidized rate.

As of 2006 MA was spending about $475M on healthcare (and the federal government and additional $300M), by paying hospitals for those who just stiffed paying their bills... In 2008, as a result of CommonwealthCare, that amount dropped to $115M (with the federal government still covering $300M)... The whole savings was accomplished by private funding... and personal responsibility for health care costs...

That was the first ever successfully functioning universal healthcare system in the country which actually did not raise governmental spending, or create a massive overarching beaurocracy which controlled your healthcare...


Obama says they looked to MA as a model for what they did to create a healthcare bill... which may be true... but instead of taking that model and improving on it... they took a small portion of that model and added it to the already failing concepts of government run healthcare most liberals subscribe to, that drive up costs of healthcare... Instead of contacting Mitt Romney for some advice based off of how he did it, Obama never contacted Romney, or the architects of the plan... He gave Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid the objective to create a healthcare bill that he would sign... they all met several times, but then the Democrats just ignored any outside input and pushed through a one-sided shady peice of legislation, which did not get a single vote from the other side of the aisle. The bill, some 2,000 pages created a massive overarching program, which is estimated to cost the US $100B/yr, at current costs... It set up a single payer system variety plan (the most expensive option), and said just assumed that "there will be connector groups which will offer low cost insurance", without actually consulting the companies who will offer this insurance, or setting up the actual plans people can subscribe to...

If we are to compare healthcare plans... Romney's CommonwealthCare plan in MA is the FAR greater plan... and Obama is an abject failure of a plan, that even some of his greatest proponents say "its terrible plan, but at least he passed something, until we can create something else"...

If this is to reflect anything about the different leadership styles, it reflects that Romney is able to work with both parties and public and private partnerships to accomplish objectives... Whereas Obama is just out there to try whatever he can, despite the costs, and the people he pisses off along the way who could have actually contributed positively the the solution...
 
IndepCentristMA said:
Obama says they looked to MA as a model for what they did to create a healthcare bill...
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That's my point. Romney is a Big Government Liberal - just like Obama.

IndepCentristMA said:
If we are to compare healthcare plans... Romney's CommonwealthCare plan in MA is the FAR greater plan... and Obama is an abject failure of a plan, that even some of his greatest proponents say "its terrible plan, but at least he passed something, until we can create something else"...
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And that something else is a public option which will lead to a single payer system. This is one of the tenants behind Obama's social experiment, isn't it?
And it was Romney who provided the blueprint for the stepping stone that is leading our country ON that path. And this is jst ONE example of how Romney is skewing our Republican Party to the LEFT!
 
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CONSagainROMNEY said:
That's my point. Romney is a Big Government Liberal - just like Obama.

And that something else is a public option which will lead to a single payer system. This is one of the tenants behind Obama's social experiment, isn't it?
And it was Romney who provided the blueprint for the stepping stone that is leading our country ON that path. And this is jst ONE example of how Romney is skewing our Republican Party to the LEFT!
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aGAIN, I don't care what your point is...

especially when you're digging up threads from 2011 to try and attack Romney on... ones you likely just discovered, because you created an ID to make it seem like you're a conservative, and then are rehashing old threads... it's a pathetic attempt...

and,

especially when you're going to quote me well out of context... and edit out all the parts where I said Obama claims to have used MA as a model, but the ACA is nothing like what it is here in MA, so he wasn't actually using it as a model, and if he was using MA as a model, the smart thing would've been to bring Mitt Romney in to help him work on it... which was never done...

You also fail by saying Romney was the architect of the single payer system... When CommonwealthCare offers you 5 options, and NONE of them are single payer... they're all pool coverages created by the major insurance companies in the Boston area, Tufts, Harvard Pilgrim, Blue Cross Blue Shield, etc, 3 of which were created specifically for his legislation and already in existence when it kicked in for people to use... Everything was simple and mapped out easily... I was even on it for a while when I was in between jobs...


Where else you fail, is by faulty logical jumps... like saying Romney is a Big Government liberal, because he created a healthcare plan...

It's not conservatives opinion that everyone should fend for themselves and when people are sick and unable to afford health insurance that they should be forced to die...

The only person who would think that, or pretend to think that... would be a liberal operative masquerading as a Republican that is upset with Romney...

Several Republicans have come up with healthcare plans... From presidents Nixon & Ford, to governors Reagan & Romney... etc.

Just because Romney successfully created a healthcare system which insures people doesn't make him a "Big Government Liberal", it just makes him an effective leader... Who saw a problem and solved it...

That problem was the uncompensated care pool, which covered people who had no insurance, without them having to pay a single cent... Instead, Romney rounded up the ones who had jobs, and could afford to pay for health insurance, and got them to do so, so they werent stiffing hospitals with the bills (and in turn taxpayers who ended up having to pay them)...

So Romney eliminated a program that free loaders used to stiff taxpayers with their medical bills, and you call him a Big Government Liberal for it?

Unreal... no seriously... UNREAL... have fun faking it... no one is buying...

Consider this my last post regarding anything you say on this site... No more of this nonsense for me...
 
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CONSagainROMNEY said:
That's my point. Romney is a Big Government Liberal - just like Obama.
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Agreed, accept I'd say they're both right of center on banking and business regs.

Romney is skilled a making business decisions that make money -- no matter what the negative fallout or loss of jobs.

You can't run a government with that mindset.
 
hazlnut said:
Agreed, accept I'd say they're both right of center on banking and business regs.

Romney is skilled a making business decisions that make money -- no matter what the negative fallout or loss of jobs.

You can't run a government with that mindset.
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Hmm... but he ran a government... quite successfully... balancing a $3B deficit, and turning it into a $2B rainy day fund in 2 yrs... and growing the states workforce by over 20K jobs per year (one of only 2 states to do so in that time span) for a net positive of 87K jobs...

He was also personally involved in making the decision to eliminate a number of useless government jobs, and to bring in new companies that would create more...

He also signed the only successfully functioning universal healthcare plan in the country which didnt increase costs or need a large overarching beaurocracy... Took contol of and straightened out the largest construction project in the history of the US, getting it completed, and recovering costs for faulty work or overinflated estimates... among many other accomplishments...

You had it right when you said Romney is skilled at making business decisions, and you should've left it at that...
 
IndepCentristMA said:
Hmm... but he ran a government... quite successfully... balancing a $3B deficit, and turning it into a $2B rainy day fund in 2 yrs... and growing the states workforce by over 20K jobs per year (one of only 2 states to do so in that time span) for a net positive of 87K jobs...

He was also personally involved in making the decision to eliminate a number of useless government jobs, and to bring in new companies that would create more...

He also signed the only successfully functioning universal healthcare plan in the country which didnt increase costs or need a large overarching beaurocracy... Took contol of and straightened out the largest construction project in the history of the US, getting it completed, and recovering costs for faulty work or overinflated estimates... among many other accomplishments...

You had it right when you said Romney is skilled at making business decisions, and you should've left it at that...
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Yes, that was the moderate Mitt. He's not running for President. We have appeal to the Teabrains Mitt running for President.

As an Independent, I can't be sure who I'm getting.
 
hazlnut said:
Agreed, accept I'd say they're both right of center on banking and business regs.

Romney is skilled a making business decisions that make money -- no matter what the negative fallout or loss of jobs.

You can't run a government with that mindset.
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Good point. The Liberal Republicans who went along with Clinton and th New Democrats (Corporate Democrats) on NAFTA have had no problem sending our jobs overseas. Romney was right in the middle of that while at Bain. These liberal Republicans who spend like drunken sailors and send AMerican jobs overseas are NOT the Republicans of the Eisenhower and Reagan Party. They are no better than the Demwits!
 
hazlnut said:
Yes, that was the moderate Mitt. He's not running for President. We have appeal to the Teabrains Mitt running for President.

As an Independent, I can't be sure who I'm getting.
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You can be sure that he'd be successful, though... since he's been successful in EVERY SINGLE executive leadership role he's ever had...

If we are comparing reliability, though... Obama has changed far more positions, broken promises, and failed at accomplishing so many objectives... even though the record of his political career has been so much shorter...

Just in this election process alone Obama has had 2 major "evolution"s, which doesn't count breaking the promise of transparency, increasing the war effort rather than ending it, using preemptive strike in Libya, not closing GITMO, etc...

If reliability were an issue I was concerned about, Romney would be the one getting my vote...
 
IndepCentristMA said:
Hmm... but he ran a government... quite successfully... balancing a $3B deficit, and turning it into a $2B rainy day fund in 2 yrs...
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It's hilarious that you constantly cite this is Romney's big accomplishment. EVERY Masachusettes governor balances the budget as they are required to do by the state constitution.
 
AdamT said:
It's hilarious that you constantly cite this is Romney's big accomplishment. EVERY Masachusettes governor balances the budget as they are required to do by the state constitution.
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If every Massachusetts Governor has done so... Then Romney would not have been facing a $3B deficit when he entered office, would he? It was the largest deficit MA has ever had... and Romney closed it in no time... even doubling up on the turnaround, by creating a rainy day fund just as large...

I know an Obama supporter wouldn't have much respect for the work required to balance a budget... or to get the MA legislature to make cuts... but that's just what he did...

If only Obama had used Romney's model for that... maybe we wouldn't be in such poor fiscal shape... then again, going off what he did with Romney's model of healthcare... he likely would've messed that up, too...
 
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