Pastor backing Perry: Romney not a Christian

Bob Blaylock said:

I would say so. Rather amazingly, though, a very large portion of “Christians”—including nearly all of those who deny that us Mormons are Christians—do not actually believe that Jesus is the literal son of God. The “Trinity”, defined by the Athanasian Creed, and believed by most Christians, actually bears much more resemblance to the heathen Hindu concept of an “avatar” than to anything that the Bible actually says about the relationship of Jesus to our Heavenly Father.

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Good observation.

I've often thought that, if Christianity (capital C, meaning that Jesus really died for the sins of mankind, that he went around preaching and doing miracles and so on) is really factual, then Mormonism is true also.

How can it be that God quit speaking to us through prophets two thousand years ago, and left it up to men to figure out what is and isn't the word of God?

Mormons believe in an apostasy, (i.e., the church got away from the true religion), and a restoration through modern prophecy. Any student of church history can see that there was an apostasy, so if there is a real Christian church today, it would have to have been restored. How could mankind have restored it on our own?

American said:

Fine, then Moveon and other leftwing supporters like unions can lose theirs.

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MoveOn.org Civic Action is a 501(c)(4) organization which primarily focuses on nonpartisan education and advocacy on important national issues

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And I have not seen them endorse any candidate.

Dittohead not! said:

How can it be that God quit speaking to us through prophets two thousand years ago, and left it up to men to figure out what is and isn't the word of God?

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And he spent how long guiding us before Jesus came along? Perhaps like any good parent he decided that after so much time passed it was time that we made our own choices. That we had everything that we needed to live a good life.

ksu_aviator said:

Mormon is to Christianity as Christianity is to Judaism

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In my opinion all religions are cults, not like Jim Jones or David Koresh, but cults just the same. Mormon, Jewish, Catholicism etc. - six of one half a dozen of another. :2razz:

pbrauer said:

In my opinion all religions are cults, not like Jim Jones or David Koresh, but cults just the same. Mormon, Jewish, Catholicism etc. - six of one half a dozen of another. :2razz:

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Well Jim Jones and David Koresh's did less harm

Perry has shot himself in the foot so many times it is amazing he is capable of walking. Bringing religion into politics is like taking fleas to bed.

pbrauer said:

Well, it was under Bush's watch that went into the toilet and we are slowly getting out of it.

Private sector jobs gains/losses

Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
2008 Gain/ Loss	4	-128	-87	-186	-240	-217	-265	-317	-434	-491	-787	-636
2009 Gain/ Loss	-841	-721	-787	-773	-326	-438	-287	-215	-213	-250	-34	-102
2010 Gain/ Loss	-42	-21	144	229	48	65	93	110	109	143	128	167
2011 Gain/ Loss	94	261	219	241	99	75	156	17

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Two things about your post, first, now you are touting business “creating” jobs, So I guess you are no longer in conflict with them, seeing how they are doing such a fine job of “creating jobs” right ??


Another thing interesting, is every month but one in 2011 there has been more job creation then there was in 2010. Hmm now what could have happened at the end of 2010 … to give business a vote of confidence to begin to hire more then the year before … Oh wait .. wasn't there an election in 2010 ??? One branch of the government lost by the democrats, enough that Obama and liberals lost their free rein to do whatever they wanted.


Just think how those numbers could improve even more ….. in 2012....if only the rest of the liberals were to lose control.

Kal'Stang said:

Try again.



IRS

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I don't have to. You failed to prove your point. The IRS says:

"...organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office..."

Speaking on behalf of your religion as to what political candidate might benefit or harm your religion or its tenets is not intervening with any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate. They are speaking on behalf of their church/religion.

pbrauer said:

In my opinion all religions are cults, not like Jim Jones or David Koresh, but cults just the same. Mormon, Jewish, Catholicism etc. - six of one half a dozen of another. :2razz:

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Fortunately the existence of God does not depend on whether or not you believe in Him or subscribe to any particular religion.

ksu_aviator said:

I don't have to. You failed to prove your point. The IRS says:

"...organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office..."

Speaking on behalf of your religion as to what political candidate might benefit or harm your religion or its tenets is not intervening with any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate. They are speaking on behalf of their church/religion.

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Simple question: What would be the point in a preacher stating to the masses that X politician would benefit/harm X religion?

If everyone else would indulge me I would appreciate it if no one else answered this question until after ksu_aviator has already done so.

ksu_aviator said:

I don't have to. You failed to prove your point. The IRS says:

"...organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office..."

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That's actually wrong. Tax Exempt organizations are allowed to engage in immaterial amounts of political activity and lobbying as long as they aren't cooperating with a campaign and using tax exempt resources in campaigning. For instance, I used to work on a multibillion dollar tax exempt organization. They lobbied the state and I had to report the time and equivalent money spent. The total amounts were something less than a 1/100,000,000 of the organizations total assets.

Speaking on behalf of your religion as to what political candidate might benefit or harm your religion or its tenets is not intervening with any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate.

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Did you just say that? Wowzers. You just said that speaking out as to which candidate you think your religion supports as to why your church members should vote for them is NOT intervening in a political campaign for the candidate you are pushing for. You remind me of Bill Clinton. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman (while she was under the desk!!!)"

They are speaking on behalf of their church/religion.

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You really outta to read your posts before you post them Mr. "God Lied to us, therefore he didn't lie to us."

Kal'Stang said:

Simple question: What would be the point in a preacher stating to the masses that X politician would benefit/harm X religion?

If everyone else would indulge me I would appreciate it if no one else answered this question until after ksu_aviator has already done so.

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Hahhaha. I really want to know how advocating for a candidate is not advocating for a candidate. Ksu_aviator's position is in no way grounded in reality.

Here's an interesting editorial on the subject of this thread.

As the dominant civic religion in the land, American Christianity has nothing to do with the itinerant rabbi executed by the Romans on a desolate hilltop in Palestine two millennia ago. That's a distinction that is often lost on those who believe that Jesus of Nazareth would have anything to do with the heretical nonsense propagated by spiritual con men and religious robber barons in his name today.

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On a purely doctrinal level, there's no denying that Mormonism and what many consider "historic Christianity" part ways on significant theological points.

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The irony is that as embodiments of America's civic religious ideal, Mormons put adherents of every other group to shame. They're patriotic, highly educated, entrepreneurial, conservative to a fault and obedient to authority.

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That's why the bigotry of Robert Jeffress and his ilk is so outrageous. Mormons adhere to the values of American Christianity better than American Christians do, yet they get labeled as "cultists."

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On the contrary, Mormonism is the most American of American religions, civil or otherwise. It was born on American soil less than two centuries ago. Its first "prophets" were murdered and persecuted by American Christians during a wave of religious intolerance. Their blood covers a wide swath of American soil from upstate New York to Salt Lake City.

Until the 1970s, they even had a problem with black people, which is also very American.

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(check the picture of the author on that last one)

Let's see how many threads I can get Ksu to flee from. I respond to his crackpot arguments, he never comes back.

ksu_aviator said:

Fortunately the existence of God does not depend on whether or not you believe in Him or subscribe to any particular religion.

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What do you mean when you say "fortunately?" :shock: