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Opposition to Obama grows - strongly

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1. A huge debt acquired through two wars (Afghanistan, Iraq) that accomplished virtually nothing

while you could argue back and forth on the efficacy of the campaign in Iraq and Afghanistan (and isn't it interesting how rapidly the left has shifted from calling Afghanistan 'the good war' to 'one of George Bush's wars'); the cost for them both over the period of George Bush's presidency was less than last years' deficit under Barack Obama. Eight Years of Iraq cost less than the so-called "Stimulus" plan alone.

2. Tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans, increasing our deficit tremendously

actually tax receipts climbed to historic high's following the 2003 tax cuts; though you would be correct to note that the 2001 tax credit emphasis did not accomplish much, as tax credits tend not to do.

3. Participated in financial deregulation that caused the recession (Reagan, Bush H.W., and Clinton all participated too)

the meltdown in the financial sector was caused by a whole host of factors (including, it is worth noting, massive overconsumption on the part of regular Americans); but yes, Bush rightfully should get a chunk of blame for his role.

4. Advocated "free trade" with other countries, something that encourages corporations to shut down their factories here and set up overseas because countries like China have way less regulation in regards to workers' rights and wages

I think you are thinking of NAFTA - which was passed under President Clinton and which helped lead to historically low unemployment.

5. The Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act, a piece of legislation designed to create larger profits in the healthcare industry.

actually it was designed to provide prescription drug coverage in Medicare using a semi-market based system to hold down costs. and it has worked beautifully - thus far, it is the only program of it's size and nature in American history to come in at 42% BELOW projected costs, and it has held the rate of inflation in the healthcare that it covers down to 1.2%.

The pharmaceutical industry (big pharma) has spent more on lobbying than any other industry

that's not quite true - but be that as it may; the money in lobbying has only increased.
 
while you could argue back and forth on the efficacy of the campaign in Iraq and Afghanistan (and isn't it interesting how rapidly the left has shifted from calling Afghanistan 'the good war' to 'one of George Bush's wars'); the cost for them both over the period of George Bush's presidency was less than last years' deficit under Barack Obama. Eight Years of Iraq cost less than the so-called "Stimulus" plan alone.

Interesting how you make claims about a group which is in fact not true of a whole group. I supported Afghanistan under both Bush and Obama. I will also take irrelevant comparisons for 1000. If you are trying to suggest that the cost of the wars was small, that is stupid. More likely you are just trying to downplay the cost of the wars, which is dishonest.

actually tax receipts climbed to historic high's following the 2003 tax cuts; though you would be correct to note that the 2001 tax credit emphasis did not accomplish much, as tax credits tend not to do.

You know better than this. Tax receipts where higher, but not necessarily higher than they would have been had the tax cuts not happened. In fact, probably the opposite is true and the tax cuts reduced revenue below what they would have been without the cuts.

And so help me god, if you break out that retarded Hawser's law or whatever it is called that has proven to be inaccurate just by the last 2 years of data, I will laugh at you.

the meltdown in the financial sector was caused by a whole host of factors (including, it is worth noting, massive overconsumption on the part of regular Americans); but yes, Bush rightfully should get a chunk of blame for his role.

The largest single factor for the collapse was deregulation, which started under Reagan, he and every president and congress since share that blame.

I think you are thinking of NAFTA - which was passed under President Clinton and which helped lead to historically low unemployment.

You are half correct, and could have made part of it stronger. NAFTA and GATT(1 or 2 T's, I forget) where championed by Clinton. Whether they actually led to low unemployment is debatable, though I will conede they probably did contribute to it at least for awhile.

actually it was designed to provide prescription drug coverage in Medicare using a semi-market based system to hold down costs. and it has worked beautifully - thus far, it is the only program of it's size and nature in American history to come in at 42% BELOW projected costs, and it has held the rate of inflation in the healthcare that it covers down to 1.2%.

Coming in below budget does not mean inexpensive. Further, it is a big government socialist program...OMG!
 
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As the Opposition to Obama grows it's like music to my ears and gives me hope that people are catching on to Obama's ineptness.
 
As the Opposition to Obama grows it's like music to my ears and gives me hope that people are catching on to Obama's ineptness.

It would be extremely foolish to assume there is a proportionate increase in Republican popularity. Many people have left Obama because he isn't liberal enough.
 
Who says that it is.....it still doesn't change the fact that it was Bush and the GOP's policies that drove this country into the ground. True, Obama hasn't been able to get us out of the mess and he will have to answer for that....but the GOP is going to not be able to get away with trying to distance themselves from the mess that they got us into. The question is going to be: "Do we turn the reins back over to the party that got us into the mess.....or do we continue with the party that hasn't been able to get us out of the mess". That is going to be a difficult question for America to answer....but don't be so quick to believe that they are going to want to hand the keys back to the party that drove us off the cliff in the first place.

The US economy is in a deep down turn under the control of a president who has demonstrated the inability to get us out of this mess. In fact, it has gotten worse. You better believe most Americans will vote for a challenger who has a track record of creating jobs or managing a state balanced budget.

Just ask Jimmy Carter...
 
Interesting how you make claims about a group which is in fact not true of a whole group. I supported Afghanistan under both Bush and Obama.

which puts you in the distinct minority. you, of course, know that, which makes one wonder why you chose this response, but oh well. the speed with which the left turned from the "we want to pull out of evil george bush's war in iraq so we can send those resources to the good war in afghanistan" to opposing the surge and continued US presence in the afghan theater was mind-boggling.

If you are trying to suggest that the cost of the wars was small, that is stupid.

it would be, but I am not. what I am suggesting is that blaming our debt on them is foolish. in 2007, as Bush was launching the surge into Iraq, our annual deficit was about $160 Billion dollars. this year, our deficit will be about 9 times that size.

More likely you are just trying to downplay the cost of the wars,

they deserve to be downplayed from where he placed them, and put into their proper context.

which is dishonest.

i've noticed you sling this around a bit. project much?

You know better than this. Tax receipts where higher, but not necessarily higher than they would have been had the tax cuts not happened. In fact, probably the opposite is true and the tax cuts reduced revenue below what they would have been without the cuts.

if people were robots, instead of self-interested, self-directing actors, that would have some logic behind it. unfortunately for your argument....

And so help me god, if you break out that retarded Hawser's law or whatever it is called that has proven to be inaccurate just by the last 2 years of data, I will laugh at you.

:) every time you get bent out of shape about the reality of revenues, and we get into that debate, you lose and walk away. revenues aren't a direct function of tax rates because people are self-interested. GDP and the relative size of government are the two largest determining factors - again, and again, and again.

The largest single factor for the collapse was deregulation, which started under Reagan, he and every president and congress since share that blame.

If you want to trace the housing push to its' start then you are talking about Carter, and if you want to talk about the removal of the Glass-Steagal Act, then you are talking about Clinton.

irrespective, the largest factor wasn't deregulation, but rather an over easing of the monetary supply that flowed where the government pushed it - into housing. for democrats, it was cheap loans for poor minorities, and for republicans, it was building an "ownership society", but for both, it was malinvestment thanks to the assumption that price signals don't reflect reality as much as political pressure does.

You are half correct, and could have made part of it stronger. NAFTA and GATT(1 or 2 T's, I forget) where championed by Clinton. Whether they actually led to low unemployment is debatable, though I will conede they probably did contribute to it at least for awhile.

free trade absolutely increases employment - just as trade barriers decreases it. our problem with NAFTA et. al. is not that we have multilateral free trade agreements (we should expand them), it is that we have made it expensive to hire workers here at home while at the same time allowing the importation of a large populace of low-skill workers who are able to circumvent the system that we have in place to increase the costs of American labor.

Coming in below budget does not mean inexpensive. Further, it is a big government socialist program...OMG!

it's certainly corporatist - and it is also an unconscionable expansion of government's size and reach, I agree; which is why I opposed it and it's on the list of things I send back to the RNC every time they send me a letter asking for money. however, the one great giant silver lining of that program is that, by coming in so dramatically under the static predictions that you place so much faith in above and by holding the rise in healthcare costs in its' field so much lower than the rest of the healthcare industry, it has shown us how to reform the rest of Medicare in order to continue to provide benefits while lowering expenditures to something that we can afford.
 
which puts you in the distinct minority. you, of course, know that, which makes one wonder why you chose this response, but oh well. the speed with which the left turned from the "we want to pull out of evil george bush's war in iraq so we can send those resources to the good war in afghanistan" to opposing the surge and continued US presence in the afghan theater was mind-boggling.

This is pure spin. It is entirely consistent and logical to support a war, and then when the situation looks unwinnable, suggest it is time to get out. I disagree with the sentiment that it is unwinnable, but it is not an unreasonable analysis.

it would be, but I am not. what I am suggesting is that blaming our debt on them is foolish. in 2007, as Bush was launching the surge into Iraq, our annual deficit was about $160 Billion dollars. this year, our deficit will be about 9 times that size.

No one has claimed the whole debt is because of them. Don't try and build that straw man.

they deserve to be downplayed from where he placed them, and put into their proper context.

Too bad you did not do that, you just tried to downplay them.

i've noticed you sling this around a bit. project much?

I think it has more to do with your debate style. It's like your pre-emptive bitching that Obama might go negative, and then ignoring republicans going negative(did you think no one noticed that?)

if people were robots, instead of self-interested, self-directing actors, that would have some logic behind it. unfortunately for your argument....

Well, you managed to completely ignore what I said and respond with something that does not address anything. Do you have any facts about what tax revenue would be like without tax cuts? Any projections? I have some I can supply.

:) every time you get bent out of shape about the reality of revenues, and we get into that debate, you lose and walk away. revenues aren't a direct function of tax rates because people are self-interested. GDP and the relative size of government are the two largest determining factors - again, and again, and again.

This is bull**** and a straw man. I don't run away from anything, and I don't claim tax revenue is a direct function of tax rates. However, I don't try and claim that tax rates do not affect revenue when they do. I also do not trot out a law which haas been violated the last two years as proof.

If you want to trace the housing push to its' start then you are talking about Carter, and if you want to talk about the removal of the Glass-Steagal Act, then you are talking about Clinton.

I was referring to deregulation which started under Reagan. I am not aware of anything happening under Carter, but I willing to concede that there may have been factors started under him.

irrespective, the largest factor wasn't deregulation, but rather an over easing of the monetary supply that flowed where the government pushed it - into housing. for democrats, it was cheap loans for poor minorities, and for republicans, it was building an "ownership society", but for both, it was malinvestment thanks to the assumption that price signals don't reflect reality as much as political pressure does.

This is arguable at the very least, but what factor was largest is a side issue.

free trade absolutely increases employment - just as trade barriers decreases it. our problem with NAFTA et. al. is not that we have multilateral free trade agreements (we should expand them), it is that we have made it expensive to hire workers here at home while at the same time allowing the importation of a large populace of low-skill workers who are able to circumvent the system that we have in place to increase the costs of American labor.

Free trade does not increase employment, and in fact can decrease it, in a situation where one country has a higher cost of living and hence a higher labor cost than others.

it's certainly corporatist - and it is also an unconscionable expansion of government's size and reach, I agree; which is why I opposed it and it's on the list of things I send back to the RNC every time they send me a letter asking for money. however, the one great giant silver lining of that program is that, by coming in so dramatically under the static predictions that you place so much faith in above and by holding the rise in healthcare costs in its' field so much lower than the rest of the healthcare industry, it has shown us how to reform the rest of Medicare in order to continue to provide benefits while lowering expenditures to something that we can afford.

How quick you evade. The point is, even under budget, it is still an expensive program that increased the debt. Saying it came in underbudget is pure evasion, again. Your problem, like the rest of the tea party, is you are only a fiscal hawk when it comes to tax rates for rich people and/or a democrat is in the white house. A republican spending, that is A-OK, as your posting here shows.
 
1. A huge debt acquired through two wars (Afghanistan, Iraq) that accomplished virtually nothing
2. Tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans, increasing our deficit tremendously
3. Participated in financial deregulation that caused the recession (Reagan, Bush H.W., and Clinton all participated too)
4. Advocated "free trade" with other countries, something that encourages corporations to shut down their factories here and set up overseas because countries like China have way less regulation in regards to workers' rights and wages
5. The Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act, a piece of legislation designed to create larger profits in the healthcare industry. The pharmaceutical industry (big pharma) has spent more on lobbying than any other industry

1.) I may agree the wars went on to long, but I don't blame Bush for starting them. He was resolute and wanted to show the American people leadership after a Crisis. Heck we would have shouted to high heaven if had not sought blood. I can't help but think if we were to get the same attack today how Obama would respond. Would he fly over to the suspected country, bow before thier leader, and appologize for offending them and ask them what America can do to fix things?

2.) He certianly seems to be trying to fix this one. According to the Chicago Tribune:
"This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes and payroll taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay 15 percent of their income in federal taxes."

Data: The rich actually do pay more taxes - chicagotribune.com

and another article here shows several graphs, one which actually says that the top one percent contributes 4x as much to US tax revenues than the bottom 40%. Is this not enough?
**How much would be enough?**

I'm surprised that I cannot find a whole lote of objective information lending credence to the "NAZI banker" thesis posed by the Occupy Wall St. crowd. If anyone has anything besides "there just so freaking rich!" I'll like to hear it.

3.) I donno what Financial deregulation, but deregulation sounds sounds good to me.
4.)That wasn't the only thing that moved factories overseas. We have an unpredictable tax code and outrageous over-regulation in this country. I would like to sell bottled water on a public beach to help raise money to stop human trafficing which is rampant on the treasure coast, and I'm not allowed! Bottled water! So I thought maybe just on the road or something. That would have costed me $150 dollars in permits. We have 7 year old girls getting thier lemonades stands shut down for not have the appropriate $300 worth of paperwork done!
5.) I agree that lobbyists have to much sway in American politics, but if it's not corporations it's unions. I don't understand how these politicians become millionairs on a politicians salary, but its suspect to me!

Thank you for answering my question.
** implies a question I would really like an answer too. The rest is just gas you can ignore.
 
It is clearly less nutty -- that's for sure.
I guess that's one way of looking at it, though not the way I meant. ;)
 
The left has been anti-war since the Vietnam debacle.
 
As I've been saying here for some time: the relative success of even the Ron Pauls' etc. when matched against Obama in polling indicate that there is a large portion of the populace who have simply decided that they will vote against Obama rather than for anyone; and they are willing to vote against him by voting for anyone.

Yeah, there is a "throw the bums out" mood in the country, all politicians in office are seeing growing opposition.
 
Well one thing is for certain...Obstructionism in the house since November has really dont wonders to aid in getting the country out of the hole were in...we made great strides since nov...the house teapartiers have been instrumental in leading this hella recovery were experiencing...Oh wait...its gotten worse since nov ?????? wow who'd a thought. :(
 
Yeah, there is a "throw the bums out" mood in the country, all politicians in office are seeing growing opposition.
A deserving sentiment I would think based on their extremely poor performance. It pleases me to no end to see this sentiment and the many growing protests. Americans are finally starting to clear their throats. The sentiment and subsequent protesting will continue to grow and become more powerful until real change, from both the supposed liberal and supposed conservative parties happens.
 
A deserving sentiment I would think based on their extremely poor performance. It pleases me to no end to see this sentiment and the many growing protests. Americans are finally starting to clear their throats. The sentiment and subsequent protesting will continue to grow and become more powerful until real change, from both the supposed liberal and supposed conservative parties happens.

I agree, I am happy to see both the tea party and these new left wing populists (whatever they end up being called). We have too much entrenchment in existing political parties and need a refresher from both sides of the aisle.
 
I agree, I am happy to see both the tea party and these new left wing populists (whatever they end up being called). We have too much entrenchment in existing political parties and need a refresher from both sides of the aisle.
I am a proud conservative and will fight for and vote for any real conservative candidates and issues. However, as conservative as my political (mostly economic and foreign polciy wise) beliefs are, true liberal actions would have been better for this country than what we have seen transpire over the last few years. There is nothing liberal at all about what the democrats and Obama have done. I do not believe that a true liberal approach would be better than a true conservative approach, but it would still have been better than what we have done lately.
 
I am a proud conservative and will fight for and vote for any real conservative candidates and issues. However, as conservative as my political (mostly economic and foreign polciy wise) beliefs are, true liberal actions would have been better for this country than what we have seen transpire over the last few years. There is nothing liberal at all about what the democrats and Obama have done. I do not believe that a true liberal approach would be better than a true conservative approach, but it would still have been better than what we have done lately.

I agree. The main problem we have in this country right now is one of culture. There is less and less common perspective (whether conservative, liberal, or anything else), which means any enacted policy will do poorly because all policies rely on people playing along.

This is why I support these movements, because, we as a country, need solidarity and in many ways its less important what that solidarity looks like or what perspective drives it, as long as people play the game. So lets get our passions for our society up, lets begin to care again, lets pay attention, and then we have a chance to start working things out.
 
I agree. The main problem we have in this country right now is one of culture. There is less and less common perspective (whether conservative, liberal, or anything else), which means any enacted policy will do poorly because all policies rely on people playing along.

This is why I support these movements, because, we as a country, need solidarity and in many ways its less important what that solidarity looks like or what perspective drives it, as long as people play the game. So lets get our passions for our society up, lets begin to care again, lets pay attention, and then we have a chance to start working things out.
I think it is definetly happening now. As a society we had become complacent. A lot of good times and we started to loosen our standards of our representatives. We started accepting them skimming off the top because we didn't feel the effects of it. Politicians are like spoiled children and will continue to attempt to get away with whatever they can. If nabbing one cookie from the jar is ok, then they go back for another one and so on and so on...

In a sense, we the people are responsible for the problems we are having with todays politicians because we allowed them to get away with so much. Both parties members are responsible for allowing the ideologies to take a back seat and only be used as campaign slogans. I do feel there is a bit of urgency to get back on the right track for both parties, or perhaps create stronger 3rd parties. I'm ok with either option. Most likely legit 3rd parties both conservative and liberal will re align the main two. IF not, screw em I say. Let them fade away. I believe there are many good people who would be representatives if the system was not so full of corruption and plain old dishonesty. Many good people don't want to be involved with the system. The protests and the creation of the tea party and any liberal version of it is most definetly a good thing. Its just the start. If we do not continue with these protests and movements, we will end up like Greece. That is where we are headed. The Greek people allowed their government too much control and too much unaccounted spending that got them no where but unmanagable unbacked debt.

More spending or less spending isn't always the best answer, its how we spend is. We can and will argue about how to best. Only when our debates begin to revolve around how, not how much will our economic and foreign policy situations begin to improve.
 
Funny how we weer having a semi-decent recovery, right up until republicans took over the house. I think the republicans in the house have as much if not more blame in the recovery stalling.

Funny we didn't have any collapse of the economy, until after Dem's took control of both houses..... so by your same logic .. we can blame the collapse on them right ? After all at the end of 2006 things we still looking pretty good weren't they ?
 
4 in 10 Americans strongly disapproved of Obama when he took office. What is the news story?
 
Did you read the OP? I am guessing not.
Then you would be guessing wrong. His opposition and or unfavorability numbers are significantly higher now then they were. That number is continuing a negative trend against Obama. That is certainly news that is relevant when he is running for re-election
 
As I've been saying here for some time: the relative success of even the Ron Pauls' etc. when matched against Obama in polling indicate that there is a large portion of the populace who have simply decided that they will vote against Obama rather than for anyone; and they are willing to vote against him by voting for anyone.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Obama Job Approval

Gallup has him at 38% approval rating today, October 4-6
 
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