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Originally Posted by galenrox  Once again, if you hold both to the same standards you'll see they are the same. All of your arguments are "If you hold the Dems to standard A and the Republicans to standard B the Republicans are further from meeting the standard of decency. Please ignore that B is set higher than A, as that's irrelevant."
If you're going to play naive to the fear mongering on both sides, all the Republican billboard does is show a picture of 9/11 and says "Please don't vote for Democrats". It doesn't say why it showed the picture of 9/11, it doesn't in any way say that Democrats caused 9/11 or if they were elected they would cause another 9/11. It just shows a picture and says "Please don't vote for Democrats".
And on the Dem ad, sure if you want to play naive to the fear mongering, they're just talking about people who some of McCain's people used to work for, they never actually say McCain's connected to these murderous dictators, they're just pointing out that some people on McCain's campaign used to work as lobbyists for these people.
BUT
If we're going to have a conversation like adults where we can cut past the partisan selective perception nonsense and recognize fear mongering regardless of whether it's done by our own political party, it's clear that there's a lot more that's being implied in each than is actually said. In the Republican billboard it's implied there's some connection between Democrats and 9/11, either they're responsible for it, they'll cause another one, or both. It doesn't say it, but it's sure as hell implied. And the Democrat ad implies that there's a connection between McCain and these murderous dictators, either he's like them, or he's cool with them, or they'd have clout in McCain's white house, or all of the above. Once again, it doesn't say it, but it's sure as hell implied. |
The dem ad starts out saying:
"John McCain says he'll take on lobbyists."
Then:
"But his inner circle is full of Lobbyists:
Charlie Black - Chief Campaign Adviser
Doug Goodyear - Convention CEO
Tom Loeffler - National Co-Chair
Rick Davis - Campaign Manager
Randy Scheunemann - Top Foreign Policy Adviser"
This is the opening statement, and thesis of the ad. This is what I was focused on. Now, if these facts are true, it is reasonable for discussion. Naming who they lobbied is giving evidence that they are lobbyists. If they lobbied for these groups, pointing it out isn't inherently partisan. Presentation is everything.
Now after rewatching this, I see that "Anti-Western Political Parties" are one of the groups. I guess that this could be taken as someone to be fearful of. I've just rewatched it and can see how that may be taken as something to be afraid of and fearmongering.
Personally, the rest doesn't scare me. It was a smear, I don't dispute that. But, it was a smear based in fact. They aren't going to put out an ad praising McCain. I see it as legitimate ammo. The could have presented it in an honest manner though.
As for the bolded sentence, those things may be true (minus the "he'll be like them" for reasons already stated) but they don't threaten me personally. I won't lose my health care, I won't be killed, I won't lose my social security, and I won't lose my freeedom. This is why I asked what I am to be afraid of. I see that it could be playing on fear with the "Anti-Western political parties".
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Originally Posted by galenrox Listen, I recognize we're heading towards an election and it's easy to get caught up in the tunnel vision and it's sometimes hard to remove yourself from seeing things in a purely partisan manner, but I would really appreciate it if you would choose not to waste my time with that sort of ****, as I feel I have already extended that courtesy to you. I'm not going to bother if you repeatedly attempt to excuse holding different sides to different standards. |
If you would have shown me that the "Anti-Western political parties" was something to fear, I would have had to concede. Instead you kept calling me a partisan. I overlooked a point and you failed to point it out. I'm not blaming you. I made a mistake. It's my bad. I'm not intentionally trying to be obtuse with you. I'm not trying to be partisan. But for the love of God, use some evidence instead of hurling the partisan card which is an ad hominem attack on the man. The facts were on your side. I asked you what there was to fear. If you would have answered that question, you could have saved yourself some frustration. I should have noticed it but I missed it.