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Would You Celebrate If He/She Died?

If a Public Figure You Did Not Like Died, Would You Celebrate?

  • Total voters
    34
jallman said:
I would say that their claim to take pleasure from killing is more than likely a cover for their guilt. If they were actually taking pleasure from the killing, then I would say that particular soldier's motives are evil and he should be removed from combat.
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While you may be right I think they may also feel pleasure in killing from successfully doing their job and surviving. It's hard to know exactly what type of pleasure they are feeling.
 
Kandahar said:
Kosovo is now an independent nation and is a friend of the US. So obviously the people of Kosovo don't share your assessment. And even if you didn't agree with going to war in Kosovo, she isn't in power anymore. :roll:
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I'm not that petty. I celebrate the death of people without caring if they are in charge or not.

Kandahar said:
Well he WASN'T in charge and he isn't clamoring to send troops to Iraq NOW. So why the **** do you wish him dead?
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He is not better than the other ones.

Kandahar said:
A warmonger against whom?
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Iraq.

Kandahar said:
Are you suggesting that overthrowing the communist regime in Czechoslovakia was not a just cause?
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I prefer the term socialist government. It was plain stupid.

Sure, the Czech republic doesn't look bad now, it almost looks the same like East Germany. Last time I have been in Prague this was three days ago, it looks fine. Some of my coworkers are Czechs, they are all great people.

Kandahar said:
Then you haven't been looking very closely. He's quite possibly the best leader in Latin America today, although Felipe Calderon gives him a run for his money.
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Latin America has some good leaders, but these guys you mentioned are not among them.

Kandahar said:
The fact that you included figures like Vaclav Havel on your list - but not Robert Mugabe or Kim Jong-il - pretty much cements my view of you as a total piece of ****. I hope you die in a fire. Yours is a death I would definitely celebrate.
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Yes, I remember, when Robert Mugabe came into power, some people from Zim who I know here were not happy, they supported another organization and they said, he will not be good for Zim. I have no problem with Kim Jong Il at all.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
There aren't as many genocidal dictators as there are abortion doctors. The doctor will surely be replaced. It is not known if the genocidal dictator will. Of course, in the Hitler scenario, there is no telling what the repurcussion of that action would be. It's impossible to argue against. Things could have been worse or better. It's reckless to take an action like that without knowing the outcome. It's like shooting at a perpetrator holding a hostage in front of him. You aren't sure if you will hit the perp or the hostage. Even though you may have good intentions, reckless behavior trumps that morality IMO.
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That's where relativism comes in. Reckless behavior may trump morality to you, but to someone else the cost may be worth it. They may view the importance of their morality as overruling recklessness. We see "true believers" like this, all the time.

Yes, I did. I have evolved my thoughts through this discussion. For me, a person is defined by their actions therefor it's both. I don't believe in absolute evil.
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Gotcha. Then it seems like yours, jallman's, and my positions are similar. It will be interesting to see how some of the others I've challenged, respond.

Well yes and no. I am not black but abhor racism. But having good manners in day to day life is irrelevant. I think that there are things you are supposed to do out of duty that you shouldn't negate the bad points. Being a good father, providing a home for your family, and not beating your wife does not negate bigotry for me.
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Sounds like there are certain "pet" issues that have great meaning to you. And, again, one's specific impact on you, in regards to these issues will have a great impact on your perception of them.

Yes, that's all we have to go on.
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Agreed.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
That's where relativism comes in. Reckless behavior may trump morality to you, but to someone else the cost may be worth it. They may view the importance of their morality as overruling recklessness. We see "true believers" like this, all the time.
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Yes, it is reletivism. The "true believers" are gambling.

CaptainCourtesy said:
Gotcha. Then it seems like yours, jallman's, and my positions are similar. It will be interesting to see how some of the others I've challenged, respond.
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It will be interesting. Good thread BTW!


CaptainCourtesy said:
Sounds like there are certain "pet" issues that have great meaning to you. And, again, one's specific impact on you, in regards to these issues will have a great impact on your perception of them.
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Sure, we all have pet issues that have a great impact on our perception. I agree.
 
cherokee said:
Norman Schwarzkopf?

Really why is that?
What did he do besides show the world how to hand Saddam his own ass in 100 days, something Iran couldn't do in how many years?....:doh

Norman Schwarzkopf is one of the greatest Military leaders in our time but I'm guessing its because he's an American that just burns your azz.
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He won by firepower.
 
Hatuey said:
....Why Clinton? Sure he got his dick sucked a few times....but celebrating his death? That's....pretty cold hearted.
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It's about his politics in the Balkans, welfare reforms and attacks against a Sudanese pharmaceutical plant.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
So, GottaHurt, do you also celebrate the death of Strom Thurmond. Not only did he run for President on a segregationist ticket, believing that a portion of our society was not worthy of equal services, a position he never fully renounced to his death, but since you brought morality to your post, he, also, fathered an illegitimate child. Wouldn't this qualify for your celebration.

And how about Jesse Helms, GottaHurt? This is a man that was, not only a racist, who was against the Civil Rights Act and against MLK Day, but he also supported Roberto D'Aubuisson a Salvadorian death squad leader, who systematically killed civilians, whom Helms would not renounce even when confronted with evidence of this. Or how about he fact that he stated that all cases of AIDs were the result of sodomy, and that he refused to talk to Ryan White's mother, even when she confronted him in an elevator (Ryan White was a boy who died of AIDS after a blood transfusion). A racist, a terrorist supporter, one who could care less about the death of a little boy. Would you celebrate the death of a man like this?
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Absolutely, I made no qualms about people dying in my opening sentence.

I used the Kennedy's as an example because of the admiration that so many people show for this family. When given the facts, most people are surprised at how many members of that family have done so little for this country, and how much damage they've caused so many families.

I don't try to hold the moral high ground on my position either. I love how certain people justify their comments by saying it's OK to wish death on Bin Laden, but it's unspeakable to wish death on someone you just dislike or diagree with politically.

You're wishing death on your fellow man, period.
 
cherokee said:
Maybe volker jealous, you know length wise and all
that or maybe a plastic bj isn't the same as a real woman doing it..
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How do you know this? You're so in trouble now, because I'm gonna tell Koi that you met with a real woman :mrgreen:
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I left the poll a little vague when it comes to public figures. I wanted to see how long it would take for someone to bring out the Hitler, Saddam, OBL card. 7 posts...thank you Trinity. These are straw man examples of the intent of the thread.
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The reasoning I posted post #7 bringing up the examples of Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden and Hitler is the same one quoted here by bhkad on post #36 here :
bhkad said:
In this matter I take the hypothetical of the most detestable, well known person and ask myself whether I would celebrate news of his death.
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CaptainCourtesy said:
I find it interesting that people like these could be put in the same category as people like Jesse Helms, JFK. Condoleeza Rice, and Bill Clinton. To me, those that see things this way are looking at things in absolutist terms and cannot see any shades of gray.
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I didn't lump the above in the same category as the 3 I quoted which off my head, feel must be the top 3 that most ppl hated. I merely wanted like bhkad, to seek the worst possible scenario... plant 3 names, then decide whether I can actually celebrate their deaths. If I can't even celebrate their deaths, I must be a pure 'no' answerer to this poll.

Of the 4 names u mentioned above, I actually like all of them, so there is no way I am lumping them with the 3 'villains' I chose :D

CaptainCourtesy said:
I think Galen identified my position, and said it better than I:



There is a distinction between disliking the human and disliking the position that human adheres to.
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In Christianity, we have something similar in not judging others. We can judge ppl's actions, but it is sinful to actually judge ppl. Like if u hit somebody, I can say that action of hitting ppl is bad. But to say that u r bad... would be to judge u. As Christians, we r not called to judge.

CaptainCourtesy said:
However, I am remembering words that vauge said to me, long ago. He said it was a major reason for his starting this site. He wants to go beyond each person's position. He wants to know WHY someone holds that position. So do I.

So bear with me while I do a little devil's advocate here with a few of you, in an effort to challenge you on your beliefs and to discuss why you believe what you do...
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The motives behind one's thoughts and decisions and choices betray much of one's actual character. God looks into the hearts of men and at their motives.
 
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No, I would not celebrate. A recent example of this would be the death of Jesse Helms. While I found some of what he said during his life to be deplorable, I'm not happy that he's dead nor do I feel that his death will be a benefit to this world.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
The question is:

IF A PUBLIC FIGURE THAT YOU DID NOT LIKE AND/OR WHOSE POLITICS OR POLITICAL POSITION YOU DID NOT AGREE WITH, DIED, WOULD YOU CELEBRATE AND WHY OR WHY NOT?

BTW, I made this poll public so there would be little or no poll stuffing.
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I would celebrate in a sense that I would be glad that individual is gone,Be glad they got what they deserved(murderer,rapist,traitor and etc.) and probably say good riddance or maybe sing "ding dong the mutha ****ers gone"(sorta like ding dong the wicked witch is gone.)But I wouldn't throw a party or anything like that
 
I wouldn't celebrate but if the person had made a negative impact (IMO) on our nation or world then I would be relieved that they are no longer in the position to do so. I'd be happy that the threat of further negative impacts have been removed, yet I'd feel for the family.

Perfect example: Would you celebrate if Hitler died and you were living during WWII?
 
Volker said:
Yes, I remember, when Robert Mugabe came into power, some people from Zim who I know here were not happy, they supported another organization and they said, he will not be good for Zim. I have no problem with Kim Jong Il at all.
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Of course you don't. He isn't a Jew and doesn't like America, so he would give you no reason to hate him. :roll:
 
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Volker said:
How do you know this? You're so in trouble now, because I'm gonna tell Koi that you met with a real woman :mrgreen:
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Isn't talking about women against you islamonazi religion?

But don't worry we all know the real reason you abuse your women is because they're smarter then you.
 
I don't celebrate anyone's death. Generally I'm just apathetic about it.
 
cherokee said:
Maybe volker jealous, you know length wise and all
that or maybe a plastic bj isn't the same as a real woman doing it..
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Volker said:
How do you know this? You're so in trouble now, because I'm gonna tell Koi that you met with a real woman :mrgreen:
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Moderator's Warning:
Both of you knock it off, or take it to the Basement, or further consequences will occur.
 
GottaHurt said:
Absolutely, I made no qualms about people dying in my opening sentence.

I used the Kennedy's as an example because of the admiration that so many people show for this family. When given the facts, most people are surprised at how many members of that family have done so little for this country, and how much damage they've caused so many families.

I don't try to hold the moral high ground on my position either. I love how certain people justify their comments by saying it's OK to wish death on Bin Laden, but it's unspeakable to wish death on someone you just dislike or diagree with politically.

You're wishing death on your fellow man, period.
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So, tell me if I get your position, correct. Because of the issues you mentioned you would celebrate JFK's death. And because of the issues I mentioned, you would also celebrate Strom Thurmond's death, and Jesse Helms' death. You are showing no discrimination; the only caveat is how they lived. Is that correct?

And if it is correct, what are the determinations that you would place that would help you identify whose death you would or would not celebrate?
 
Volker said:
They are interested in going to war.
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So, you are asserting that anyone who is interested in going to war is someone who's death you would celebrate?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
The question is:

IF A PUBLIC FIGURE THAT YOU DID NOT LIKE AND/OR WHOSE POLITICS OR POLITICAL POSITION YOU DID NOT AGREE WITH, DIED, WOULD YOU CELEBRATE AND WHY OR WHY NOT?

BTW, I made this poll public so there would be little or no poll stuffing.
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Depends. Did I simply dislike/disagree, or did I view this person as a monster?
 
Doc Howl said:
Depends. Did I simply dislike/disagree, or did I view this person as a monster?
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Can you view a public figure with whom you dislike/disagree as a monster?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
So, tell me if I get your position, correct. Because of the issues you mentioned you would celebrate JFK's death. And because of the issues I mentioned, you would also celebrate Strom Thurmond's death, and Jesse Helms' death. You are showing no discrimination; the only caveat is how they lived. Is that correct?

And if it is correct, what are the determinations that you would place that would help you identify whose death you would or would not celebrate?
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It's not that simple, and it's not that complex, it's basic human nature.

I'll revert to high school and why you would detest a certain rival for no apparent reason, and why you would seek out a love interest who had no redeeming qualities, other than you were hot for them.

Sometimes people try to make things more complicated than they are, or read into things, that, which is not there.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
IF A PUBLIC FIGURE THAT YOU DID NOT LIKE AND/OR WHOSE POLITICS OR POLITICAL POSITION YOU DID NOT AGREE WITH, DIED, WOULD YOU CELEBRATE AND WHY OR WHY NOT?
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Depends.

Someone like Bill O’Reilly, no (maybe)
Someone like Kim Jong Ill, yes
Someone like GWB….

I wouldn’t throw a party or anything, I just wouldn’t be sad that they are gone, and I might even do a mental arm pump, depending on their level of despicable-ness.

Peace
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I never start threads. 26 in my 2+ years here, with this only my second poll. However, I have noticed a trend here at DP that I do not understand and I thought a thread/poll discussing the generalities of this issue would help in clarifying the issue.

I have noticed that when a thread is started about the death of a public figure, predictably, someone will come in a make a celebratory post, expressing joy over the death. The Jesse Helms thread is the most recent example. I am not, nor was I ever, a fan of Jesse Helms. I, however, cannot conceive of the mindset required to celebrate his or any other public/political figure's death. Yet it is guaranteed to occur in every thread. It, also, happens in threads discussing a severe or terminal illness of a public figure. Ted Kennedy is a recent example.

Now, in the past, when I have commented on this issue in-thread, it has been pointed out to me that a constant "sorry to hear about that" is pointless. But, as I see it, that is not the only direction a thread like that could go. A debate about the pros and cons of the figure's legacy could be discussed. Comments about what the future holds for the office he/she holds/held or the issues he/she championed. But instead, there are those who prefer to delight in the person's death. So, since I have a hard time understanding this, and would like to know how others feel when a public figure dies that they DO NOT LIKE, I created this poll.

The question is:

IF A PUBLIC FIGURE THAT YOU DID NOT LIKE AND/OR WHOSE POLITICS OR POLITICAL POSITION YOU DID NOT AGREE WITH, DIED, WOULD YOU CELEBRATE AND WHY OR WHY NOT?

BTW, I made this poll public so there would be little or no poll stuffing.
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This thread topic is pathetic nonsense. Why? The website is "Debate Politics". Isn't Politics the stuff that happens in our national discourse?

Don't like it when people give their opinions about public figures? Then you've definitely come to the wrong place. When we begin debating the stuff that about-a-dozen-or-less-people do anonymously on this website, we're not debating politics. We're having an internal discussion. Crap like this should start out in the basement.

What did Jesse Helms have to say immediately after Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated? Check it out. Let us know what you find.
 
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