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Originally Posted by galenrox  I would disagree that we were founded on a secular principle of liberty. Recognizing that liberty is something that can be arrived at by a secular way does not change that the liberty which we arrived upon is not a secular one. If you define secular as it not mattering whether or not there is a God, clearly Lockean natural rights cannot be arrived upon in a secular manner (as if it did not matter whether or not there was a God those natural rights wouldn't exist in the sense that Locke described them). Our nation was formed on rights that were derived from God, that is not secular. |
Not from the Christian god, but by our "creator" or as Adams put it "our maker."
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Originally Posted by galenrox When they enumerated these rights, the very first were that congress shall not establish a religion or abridge the free exercise thereof. The mistake of the assumption that we are supposed to be secular is derived from a misinterpretation of this. |
Having no laws in respect for an establishment of religion is secular; Thats what it means to be secular. Believing that your rights come from a creator (mind you that is deistic and not Christian language, and also a carefully chosen word choice) in no way contradicts secularism.
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Originally Posted by galenrox We are not supposed to live and act as if it did not matter whether or not God exists, but in respecting God's creation we must respect the freedom of conscience |
I think you're confusing "we" with "our government." Our government is supposed to be indifferent to religious dogma not in spite of the religious convictions of the founders but BECAUSE of them.
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Originally Posted by galenrox and some mistakenly assume that the only way to respect the freedom of conscience is to live one's public life as if God's presence was of no significance if there is a God. |
Having a secular government /= "living one's public life as if God's presence was of no significance." The founders knew that these rights, which they attributed to their maker, could only be possible in a pluralistic society; which only secularism can provide.
In recognition of the significance of their creator to our rights, did they create a secular Republic.
It is true that Paine, Adams and Jefferson were heavily influenced by Lockean natural rights, however our government is based on the constitution (not the declaration) and the words that were chosen for said constitution are quite clear.
Our government is secular, not despite of the dogmas of our founders but because of them.